Your Move Games
May 23, 2013, 05:55:32 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: New faction idea: Barbarians  (Read 11245 times)
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« on: April 13, 2009, 03:08:23 am »

Barbarian Army

This army has few references to real life barbarians like Vikings. It is just a bunch of units I put together because of boredom and it is the first real faction I have put together.


Faction Ability:

Berserk - You may spend a command action to mark a unit with "Berserk". For a turn, it gains (+1) +0/+1 and C+1. Change its standing orders to close with no modifiers. You may not change its standing orders while the mark is on.

Vengeful - If a unit with vengeful is in the yellow or red, it does not suffer any penalties but it gets C+1 while in the yellow and C+2 when in the red. Note: They still have to take rout checks.

Time for another major revamp.  Smiley

Drum roll please...Let's welcome the Dwarven Barbarians!

Some reasons for doing this is to resolve some problems that have been irritating me for a long time. Like humans having 5 green health despite not being very well disciplined, and having 3 toughness. So I decided to cut all these crap and just change them to dwarves, who are naturally quite tough and resilient.

Same faction abilities, so I'll not waste time posting it again.

Core Units

Dwarf Macemen: Offense:(4) 5/6 Defense: 1/3 Range:- Courage: 11* MC: 2.5"* Health: 5-2-4
Vengeful.
MC 3.5" when final rushing.
Equipment: Mace, chainmail armor.
Who needs two weapons when you can already bash someone's head off with one?

Dwarf Maulmen: Offense:(4) 5*/7 Defense: 1/3 Range:- Courage: 11* MC: 2.5"* Health: 5-2-4
Vengeful.
MC 3.5" when final rushing.
(+0) +1/+0 vs cavalry/large. +1/+0 when holding vs charging cavalry/large.
Equipment: Maul, chainmail armor.
The heavy two handed warhammers these warriors use can inflict brutal wounds.

Dwarf Miners: Offense:(4) 4/6 Defense: 1/2 Range:- Courage: 10 MC: 2.5"* Health: 2-3-3
MC 3.5" when final rushing.
Equipment: Pickaxe, leather armor.
Years of labouring as slave miners have lead these people to rebellion.

Dwarf Battleaxemen: Offense:(5) 5/6 Defense: 1/3 Range:- Courage: 11* MC: 2.5"* Health: 5-2-4
Vengeful.
MC 3.5" when final rushing.
Equipment: Battleaxe, chainmail armor.
Lighter but equally deadly as maces, these axes are the preferred weapons of most warriors.

Dwarf Axe Throwers: Offense:(3*) 5/6 Defense: 1*/2 Range:7" Courage: 11* MC: 2.5"* Health: 4-2-4
Vengeful.
(+2) +0/+0 when engaged.
MC 3.5" when final rushing.
Equipment: Throwing axe, hand axe, leather armor, shield.

Dwarf Savages: Offense: (7) 4/5 Defense: 1/2 Range:- Courage: 10* MC: 2.5"* Health: 4-2-3
Vengeful.
MC 3.5" when final rushing.
Equipment: axes, maces, leather armor.
Savage and reckless.

Standard Units

Dwarf Zealots: Offense:(7*) 5/5 Defense: 2*/3 Range:- Courage:- MC: 3.5" Health: 6-2-2
Fearsome.
Passes all courage checks.
When assigning standing orders, an objective unit must be given to Dwarf Zealots. If the objective unit is destroyed, you may give Dwarf Zealots another objective unit.
Permanently on close and may not be given a standing order modifier.
(-1) -0/-0 and -1/-0 when engaged with a unit other than the objective unit.
Equipment: Various hand weapons.
These warriors are driven by zealousness and incredible persistence.

Dwarf Flailers: Offense:(6) 5/6 Defense: 2*/3 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 2.5" Health: 5-2-4
No other unit may engage a unit engaged with flailers, but flailers can pinch.
-1/-0 when being pinched or pinching.
The friendly unit(s) that is/are engaged with the same unit as the flailers gets C-1.
Equipment: Flail, shield, chainmail armor.
No one dares to interfere with these fearsome fighters.

Dwarf Runecasters: Offense: (4) 4/5 Defense: 1/1 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 2.5" Health: 3-2-2
May not be given berserk.
Rune of Prediction. During your movement and command phase, if you have a unit of runecasters, you may look at the top 3 cards of your opponent's command card deck. You may spend a command action to put one command card at the bottom of the deck.
Rune of Protection. While a friendly unit within 7" range of the runecasters is being attacked, you may change one of the opponent's die into a "5". You may only use this ability on a unit once per turn per unit. Using this ability counts as playing a command card.
Rune of Persistence. While a friendly unit within 7" range of the runecasters is attacking, and fails to cause a point of damage, you may reroll two of the dice. This counts as playing a command card.
Equipment: Hood, robe, staff, runes.
These mages can enhance their troops' abilities with magical runes.

Dwarf Bear Riders: Offense: (5) 5/5* Defense: 1*/3 Range: 3.5" Courage: 11* MC: 3.5" Health: 5-2-5
Vengeful.
Cavalry.
(+0) +0/+1 when engaged.
+1/+0 when charging (this is in addition to the normal charging bonus).
Equipment: Throwing axe, battleaxe, leather armor. Mount: Bear.

Elite Units

Dwarf Chieftains: Offense: (6) 6/6 Defense: 2/3 Range:- Courage: 13* MC: 2.5"* Health: 5-4-3
Vengeful.
Fearsome.
MC 3.5" when final rushing.
Equipment: Battleaxe, maul, shield.
The chiefs of the dwarven barbarians, these warriors are unmatched in fighting skills.

Dwarf Berserkers: Offense: (7) 5/6 Defense: 1/3 Range:- Courage:- MC: 3.5" Health: 5-2-5
Vengeful.
Fearsome.
Passes all courage checks.
Permanently on close and may not be be directly controlled.
Equipment: Various hand weapons, leather armor.
Crazed by bloodlust, vengeance, and an assortment of other reasons, these warriors feel no pain in battle despite only wearing leather armor.

Ancients: Offense: (5) 6/6 Defense: 2/2 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 2.5" Health: 4-2-3
Spellcasting. All spells cast during the Movement & Command phase.
Rune of Velocity: A unit in 10.5" range of the Ancients get +1 MC and C+1.
Rune of Resilience: A unit within 10.5" range of the Ancients gets a mark. During an attack, you may remove the mark if the unit takes 2 or more points of damage to prevent one point of damage. This counts as playing a command card.
Rune of Bloodlust: A unit within 10.5" range of the Ancients gets a mark. During an attack, every point of damage it causes gives it C+1 for the turn. You must erase the mark for this effect. This counts as playing a command card.

Command Cards:

Rune of Ruthlessness x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. A unit with berserk gets (+0) +1/+0 and negates the first point of damage in combat. Otherwise, it only gets (+0) +1/+0.

Rune of Resilience x2: Play during an attack, before your opponent rolls to hit. The unit gets +1/+1 if the enemy is using ranged fire. Otherwise, it gets +0/+1

Rune of Aggressiveness x1: Play during the Movement and Command phase. A unit of your choice that will engage/is engaged this turn gets another round of combat after the first round.

Rune of Brutality x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. If you do 3 or more damage to the enemy, destroy the enemy unit. P.S. Don't use this on a "berserked" berserker charging into a peasant mob.

Throwing weapons x1: Play on a unit before initiating combat. The unit gets a range of 3.5” for the duration of your turn. If an enemy unit engages that unit the next round, the unit’s offense is (–1) -1/-1. If the unit is engaged, it may attack any other unit other than units engaged with it within a 2.5" range (no additional range granted in any situation).

Intimidate x1: Play before or after combat, in the pre-combat courage phase or post-combat courage phase. Play on an enemy engaged with one of your units. If the enemy unit has lesser health than your unit, it takes a rout check.  If not, its courage gets –1 permanently.

Rune of Recklessness x1: Play during an attack, before any other command cards are played. Neither player may play any other command cards during this attack. If you fail to do any damage during the attack, do one damage instead.

UPDATED SUMMARY
In case you're wondering, the high dice is due to dual weapons/rage (hits faster). Many will probably say that barbarians should have low accuracy. However I disagree. Barbarians hit fast and are unpredictable due to their fury. I'll say this gives them 6 accuracy, but because they are so reckless, they probably miss a lot, making it 4. Therefore, the average accuracy is about 5. The high power is rather self-explanatory. Most line units of the barbarians are 0/3, because they are so raging that they practically throw themselves into their opponents faces or something like that. Some units, like bandits, axe hurlers, flailers, gnasher cavalry and chieftains don't have 0/3, instead 1 or 2 defence skill, because they're more self-aware, not just some madmen. Flailers/chieftains/axe hurlers also wield shields, giving them +1 to defence skill. The high toughness is due to the units being able to shrug off small wounds due to fury. The ranges of units are pretty much self explanatory too. Ah, courage. Most line units have 12 courage, which SEEMS like its only AVERAGE, and barbarians are supposed to be brave, so is there something wrong here? No. Most of the line units have the ability "vengeful", which negates the penalties for being in the yellow/red (ie (-1) -0/-0 and C-1 for being in the yellow, etc), and grants them C+1 while in the yellow and C+2 (!!) while in the red! This makes them very tough to rout, and practically the bravest units in the red (berserkers and chieftains have a whopping 16 courage in the red). Also, all three of the faction abilities have some relation to courage. Berserk-ed Berserkers/chieftains have 17 courage. The movement rates are average and also quite self explanatory. Health. Most units that are vengeful tend to have few green health but tons of yellow and red health. This seems bad on the surface, but see the explanation for vengeful above. Most non-vengeful units, like zealots, have huge amounts of green health, because they're persistent and hard to force into running.

Any comments?

I would appreciate it if one of the developers/admins could use the “magic formula” for determining point cost to determine the points so I can alter them according to it.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 02:25:26 am by Quelmotz » Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
ajax98
Guest
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2009, 01:30:13 am »

Axe Throwers: Offense: (5) 4/4 Defence:1/1 Range: 10.5"

Whippers: Offense: (5) 5/5 Defense: 2/1 Range: 6”

Interesting concepts. I think the ranges are a little long for these weapons?
Logged
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2009, 03:13:02 am »

Axe Throwers: Offense: (5) 4/4 Defence:1/1 Range: 10.5"

Whippers: Offense: (5) 5/5 Defense: 2/1 Range: 6”

Interesting concepts. I think the ranges are a little long for these weapons?

True, but I wanted to allow these guys to have at least a longer ranged unit. Though I would say 6" is a bit too far for a whip, so maybe I'll lower it to 5".
Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
ZiNOS
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 578



« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2009, 01:38:15 am »

Some interesting ideas here. I am away from home for work but when i return i plan to update my Sons of Kronos list, barbarian theme also. Would you mind if i used some of your units?
Logged

DON'T PANIC <-------In Large Friendly Letters
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2009, 03:40:27 am »

Sure, no problem. Anyway, one of these armies would probably be developed sooner or later, and they might compile all 3 present barbarian armies' units together into one army.

Strange that a barbarian army is not in the "what do you think will be the next faction?" poll. The poll has:

Amazons- sort of covered by umenzi already.
Demons- sort of like undead and I don't think there is anything special enough to justify a demon only army.
Ratmen (ninja theme)- Seems quite weird and interesting but I think human ninjas would be better...
~and a few more that I could not remember~

Edit: Forgot to add in the ratmen.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 02:17:05 am by Quelmotz » Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
RushAss
Playtester
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2260


Eat your beets - Recycle!


WWW
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2009, 10:03:24 am »

Demons- sort of like undead and I don't think there is anything special enough to justify a demon only army.
I could not disagree more strongly.  The reason I've been pushing for a demonic faction over the last year is that the possibilities are nearly limitless.  You could have greater demons(big monsters),  lesser demons(standard + core), souls of the damned(fodder), spell casters or stuff with spell-like abilities, flying stuff, freaky cavalry, funky archery, you name it.  The door is open wider for a demonic faction than for anything else IMO. 

Besides, wouldn't it be cool to replace spearmen with pitchforkmen?   Tongue
Logged

"The world weighs on my shoulders but what am I to do?"
-Rush, Distant Early Warning
Curufea
Full Member
***
Posts: 113



WWW
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2009, 03:56:47 pm »

Plus a  unique special ability the demons are commonly known for - possession.
Logged

im in ur boardz addin content
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2009, 02:14:51 am »

Plus a  unique special ability the demons are commonly known for - possession.


The possessed?   Tongue

Demons- sort of like undead and I don't think there is anything special enough to justify a demon only army.
I could not disagree more strongly.  The reason I've been pushing for a demonic faction over the last year is that the possibilities are nearly limitless.  You could have greater demons(big monsters),  lesser demons(standard + core), souls of the damned(fodder), spell casters or stuff with spell-like abilities, flying stuff, freaky cavalry, funky archery, you name it.  The door is open wider for a demonic faction than for anything else IMO. 

Besides, wouldn't it be cool to replace spearmen with pitchforkmen?   Tongue

Its just my opinion though. I would rather see something other than a demon army but as I said its just my opinion.

Come on, can't someone use the "magic formula" for these guys?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 03:23:36 am by Quelmotz » Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
Curufea
Full Member
***
Posts: 113



WWW
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2009, 04:32:48 pm »

The possessed?   Tongue
I was thinking more of a command card to temporarily take over someone else's units.
Logged

im in ur boardz addin content
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2009, 02:57:31 am »

The possessed?   Tongue
I was thinking more of a command card to temporarily take over someone else's units.


Just joking  Tongue .

Could the readers please give explicit and direct opinions, maybe for individual units. I would like to see feedback so I can refine the units more. So far, I only have gotten rather vague feedback like "interesting concepts". Note: I am not forcing you to give more explicit opinions/feedback, if you do not have time a short comment will suffice.

P.S. Come on can't a developer/admin read this thread??
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 06:35:05 am by Quelmotz » Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2009, 09:52:19 pm »

Is this so good that no one has anything to say or is it so bad that nobody wants to bother replying?
Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2009, 03:46:19 am »

Is this the normal rate of replies to a topic- so low?

I don't mind constructive criticism, just say what is on your mind frankly, just don't flame.
Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
RushAss
Playtester
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2260


Eat your beets - Recycle!


WWW
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2009, 09:31:50 am »

OK, I'll bite!  Just keep in mind that I don't normally get into specific stats in new factions(I leave that to the pros) so many of my opinions may not be the greatest.
Core:
Barbarians: Offense: (4) 4/5 Defense: 1/1 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-3
The standard, cheap core unit. Equipment: Leather armor, hand axe and mace."YEARRRGHHH!!"
I'm thinking that these guys are just pathetically weak to be what many would consider to be "stock" barbarians.  I'd give them the generic (5) 5/5 stats.  Unless you wanted to rename this unit something like "Youthful Barbarians" or whatever.  Think Umenzi Initiates. 

Bandits: Offense: (4) 4/4 Defense: 1/2 Range:- Courage: 11 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-2
When getting shot at, defence gets a +0/+1. MC becomes 5" when final rushing. Equipment: Dark Leather armor, spiked clubs. These dodgy bandits are experienced in the art of dodging arrows.
Neat ability, but still way too weak.  At least raise the offensive stats to (5) 4/5 or something.

Axe Throwers: Offense: (5) 4/4 Defence:1/1 Range: 10.5" Courage: 11 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-2
Equipment: Leather armor and throwing axes. (+0) +1/+0 when engaged. Getting executed is bad enough, but when you get executed from afar...
I agree with a previous poster that 10.5 is way too long a range for thrown axes.  Umenzi Javelineers only have a range of 3.5 and a javelin will fly a heck of a lot further than a throwing axe.

Maulmen: Offense: (5) 5/7 Defense:1/2 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 4-4-3
(+1)+0/+0 when fighting cavalry. No Charge bonuses. Equipment: Leather Armor and maul. These mauls can really maul people- why are they called mauls for then?
Now we're talking!  THIS is what I expect when I think Barbarians.  Good upper level core unit.

Battleaxemen: Offense: (6) 5/6 Defense: 1/2 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 4-4-3
Equipment: Leather armor and battleaxe. Woodcutters with a bunch of big axes.

Not bad.  Basically Umenzi Berzerkers that can be given orders and face courage checks.

Fishermen: Offense: (5) 4/5 Defense: 1/2 Range: 3.5” Courage: 11 MC:3.5” Health: 3-3-3
Persistent. No charge bonuses. (+0) +1/+0 when fighting cavalry. Equipment: Leather armor, fishing rods improvised as whips. Even the fishermen are forced to take part in wars.
Hmm, I would downgrade the stats and make this the weenie unit.  Unless it's the fishing rod of the gods, I would not fear one of these guys in a hand-to-hand fight myself.  Actually, I don't care much for this as a fighting unit at all.

Standard:
Whippers: Offense: (5) 5/5 Defense: 2/1 Range: 5” Courage: 13 MC:3.5” Health: 4-4-3
Vengeful. No charge bonuses. (+0) +1/+0 when fighting cavalry. All units within a 5” range of the whippers get (+0) +0/+1 but must take a courage check. However, they get +2 courage for this courage check temporarily. “Move it! Stay in formation!”
This.... is interesting.  It's like Umenzi leadership, but with a twist.  I actually think this is a cool unit.  Can you explain how they would be better against cavalry?

Flailers: Offense: (6) 6/6 Defense: 1/2 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 3.5” Health: 4-4-4
Vengeful. Fearsome. No other unit may engage a unit engaged with flailers. Equipment: Flail, chainmail armor. No unit dares to interfere with these fearsome fighters.
Whoa, these guys are brutal in an offensive sense!  Interesting caveat about engaging enemies alone.  And of course, Flails are both unique to BG (so far) and are pretty cool.

Executors: Offense: (4) 4/8 Defense: 1/1 Range:- Courage: 12 MC:2.5” Health: 4-3-3
Persistent. No charge bonuses. Permanently on close and no command cards can be played while the executors are engaged. Berserk cannot be used on it. Equipment: Executor’s axe and leather armor. Deadly. I mean they are supposed to kill people, aren’t they?
Reminds me of an uncontrollable Dwarven Miner unit.  OK.

Zealots: Offense: (7) 4/6 Defense: 2/2 Range:- Courage: - MC: 3.5" Health: 3-4-3
Never routs. Fearsome on the charge. Permanently on close. When assigning standing orders, an objective unit must be given. The zealots gets a (-1) -0/-0 and -1/-0 when engaged with a unit other than the objective unit. Equipment: Spiked flails, spiked maces, battleaxes, spiked clubs, etc.
Interesting offensive stats.  And decent defensive stats (for the Barbarians).  And stuff with spikes on them.  Cool!

Elite:
Bull Cavalry: Offense: (6) 5/6 Defence: 2/2 Range:- Courage: 14 MC: 6” Health: 3-3-3
Cavalry. Vengeful. Terrifying on the charge. +1 impact hit while charging (adds on to the normal charging bonuses). Equipment: Flail and chainmail armor. Mount: Bull. Deadly in charges. Especially against red coloured opponents…
uh.... Barbarians on Bulls?  Sorry, but that does not compute.   Huh  But the flavor text made me chuckle  Tongue

Berserkers: Offense: (7) 5/7 Defense: 1/1 Range:- Courage: 15 MC: 3.5” Health: 4-4-3
Persistent. Fearsome. Berserk’s effects are (+1) +1/+1 and –1/-1. Equipment: Battleaxe, spiked mace and leather armor. Barabarians are brutal, zealots are vicious, executors are deadly, but berserkers are all three.
Insanely lop-sided unit when comparing their offensive ability to their defensive ability.  OF course, I'm sure that's what you where aiming for.  But I think it's still to heavily skewed.  Perhaps make the offensive stats (6) 5/7 and the defensive stats 2/1 or 1/2?  And I think YMG capped courage at 14. 

Chieftains: Offense: (6) 6/6 Defense:2/3 Range:- Courage: 15 MC 3.5” Health: 5-4-5
Vengeful. Fearsome. Equipment: Chainmail armor, two mauls and battleaxes. Only elite berserkers or bull riders may become chieftains.
With offensive stats, defensive stats, and a health bar like that, these guys would be way up in the 400+ points value range.  I'd make the offense (5) 6/6 to keep them in line with units like Chosen and Longbeards and maybe remove a red health box or two.  And again, I believe YMG capped courage at 14.

Over all, this faction seems to be heavily skewed towards offense with little to offer in defense.  This is not a bad thing, and it will probably make for short games.  But I think this balancing issue within some of these units may make them awkward to use.  One thing I do like is the introduction of Maces and Flails.  I'm surprised that no other units in existing factions are armed with these.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 09:35:19 am by RushAss » Logged

"The world weighs on my shoulders but what am I to do?"
-Rush, Distant Early Warning
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2009, 07:13:05 am »

Thanks for the comments  Grin

The replies are in bold.

Yeah I know some pro will handle the issue when he reads it.

OK, I'll bite!  Just keep in mind that I don't normally get into specific stats in new factions(I leave that to the pros) so many of my opinions may not be the greatest.
Core:
Barbarians: Offense: (4) 4/5 Defense: 1/1 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-3
The standard, cheap core unit. Equipment: Leather armor, hand axe and mace."YEARRRGHHH!!"
I'm thinking that these guys are just pathetically weak to be what many would consider to be "stock" barbarians.  I'd give them the generic (5) 5/5 stats.  Unless you wanted to rename this unit something like "Youthful Barbarians" or whatever.  Think Umenzi Initiates.  Sure. I'll change it.

Bandits: Offense: (4) 4/4 Defense: 1/2 Range:- Courage: 11 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-2
When getting shot at, defence gets a +0/+1. MC becomes 5" when final rushing. Equipment: Dark Leather armor, spiked clubs. These dodgy bandits are experienced in the art of dodging arrows.
Neat ability, but still way too weak.  At least raise the offensive stats to (5) 4/5 or something. True. I'll change it to 5/4/5 as you suggested.

Axe Throwers: Offense: (5) 4/4 Defence:1/1 Range: 10.5" Courage: 11 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-2
Equipment: Leather armor and throwing axes. (+0) +1/+0 when engaged. Getting executed is bad enough, but when you get executed from afar...
I agree with a previous poster that 10.5 is way too long a range for thrown axes.  Umenzi Javelineers only have a range of 3.5 and a javelin will fly a heck of a lot further than a throwing axe. Agreed. I think 7" should be more than enough. I mean, at least give them a chance against the high elves... With their general low skill... Erm... they don't stand a chance. I think barbarians vs high elves will beat the biasness of undead vs lizardmen.

Maulmen: Offense: (5) 5/7 Defense:1/2 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 4-4-3
(+1)+0/+0 when fighting cavalry. No Charge bonuses. Equipment: Leather Armor and maul. These mauls can really maul people- why are they called mauls for then?
Now we're talking!  THIS is what I expect when I think Barbarians.  Good upper level core unit.

Battleaxemen: Offense: (6) 5/6 Defense: 1/2 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 4-4-3
Equipment: Leather armor and battleaxe. Woodcutters with a bunch of big axes.

Not bad.  Basically Umenzi Berzerkers that can be given orders and face courage checks.

Fishermen: Offense: (5) 4/5 Defense: 1/2 Range: 3.5” Courage: 11 MC:3.5” Health: 3-3-3
Persistent. No charge bonuses. (+0) +1/+0 when fighting cavalry. Equipment: Leather armor, fishing rods improvised as whips. Even the fishermen are forced to take part in wars.
Hmm, I would downgrade the stats and make this the weenie unit.  Unless it's the fishing rod of the gods, I would not fear one of these guys in a hand-to-hand fight myself.  Actually, I don't care much for this as a fighting unit at all. Ok. I'll make this the fodder. Most factions have some kind of fodder like the peasant mob anyway.

Standard:
Whippers: Offense: (5) 5/5 Defense: 2/1 Range: 5” Courage: 13 MC:3.5” Health: 4-4-3
Vengeful. No charge bonuses. (+0) +1/+0 when fighting cavalry. All units within a 5” range of the whippers get (+0) +0/+1 but must take a courage check. However, they get +2 courage for this courage check temporarily. “Move it! Stay in formation!”
This.... is interesting.  It's like Umenzi leadership, but with a twist.  I actually think this is a cool unit.  Can you explain how they would be better against cavalry? Whip horse. Run! I don't see "whips" in the equipment of knights and other cavalry. I think they used studs (not very sure) or something.

Flailers: Offense: (6) 6/6 Defense: 1/2 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 3.5” Health: 4-4-4
Vengeful. Fearsome. No other unit may engage a unit engaged with flailers. Equipment: Flail, chainmail armor. No unit dares to interfere with these fearsome fighters.
Whoa, these guys are brutal in an offensive sense!  Interesting caveat about engaging enemies alone.  And of course, Flails are both unique to BG (so far) and are pretty cool.

Executors: Offense: (4) 4/8 Defense: 1/1 Range:- Courage: 12 MC:2.5” Health: 4-3-3
Persistent. No charge bonuses. Permanently on close and no command cards can be played while the executors are engaged. Berserk cannot be used on it. Equipment: Executor’s axe and leather armor. Deadly. I mean they are supposed to kill people, aren’t they?
Reminds me of an uncontrollable Dwarven Miner unit.  OK.

Zealots: Offense: (7) 4/6 Defense: 2/2 Range:- Courage: - MC: 3.5" Health: 3-4-3
Never routs. Fearsome on the charge. Permanently on close. When assigning standing orders, an objective unit must be given. The zealots gets a (-1) -0/-0 and -1/-0 when engaged with a unit other than the objective unit. Equipment: Spiked flails, spiked maces, battleaxes, spiked clubs, etc.
Interesting offensive stats.  And decent defensive stats (for the Barbarians).  And stuff with spikes on them.  Cool!

Elite:
Bull Cavalry: Offense: (6) 5/6 Defence: 2/2 Range:- Courage: 14 MC: 6” Health: 3-3-3
Cavalry. Vengeful. Terrifying on the charge. +1 impact hit while charging (adds on to the normal charging bonuses). Equipment: Flail and chainmail armor. Mount: Bull. Deadly in charges. Especially against red coloured opponents…
uh.... Barbarians on Bulls?  Sorry, but that does not compute.   Huh  But the flavor text made me chuckle  Tongue I know. It is weird. What kind of cavalry do you suggest then? I'm a bit bored about horses... And it doesn't seem fit to have "barbarian knights" or something.

Berserkers: Offense: (7) 5/7 Defense: 1/1 Range:- Courage: 15 MC: 3.5” Health: 4-4-3
Persistent. Fearsome. Berserk’s effects are (+1) +1/+1 and –1/-1. Equipment: Battleaxe, spiked mace and leather armor. Barabarians are brutal, zealots are vicious, executors are deadly, but berserkers are all three.
Insanely lop-sided unit when comparing their offensive ability to their defensive ability.  OF course, I'm sure that's what you where aiming for.  But I think it's still to heavily skewed.  Perhaps make the offensive stats (6) 5/7 and the defensive stats 2/1 or 1/2?  And I think YMG capped courage at 14.  I'll get chad or someone to confirm on this, but 15 does seem a bit off the top. Actually, the design of this unit is intentionally left to be EXTREMELY lop sided. (6) 5/7 is quite strong, but if I'm not wrong its weaker than The Celestial Guard's offense. Sure, this guy will be obliterated by good archers, but that's why there's a rule of not being able to shoot over units... Use this guy as a backup or when vsing a opponent who forgot his arrows.

Chieftains: Offense: (6) 6/6 Defense:2/3 Range:- Courage: 15 MC 3.5” Health: 5-4-5
Vengeful. Fearsome. Equipment: Chainmail armor, two mauls and battleaxes. Only elite berserkers or bull riders may become chieftains.
With offensive stats, defensive stats, and a health bar like that, these guys would be way up in the 400+ points value range.  I'd make the offense (5) 6/6 to keep them in line with units like Chosen and Longbeards and maybe remove a red health box or two.  And again, I believe YMG capped courage at 14.

I think a weakening of health bar would be good. Still, there is one unit (ye olde Celestial Guard) that is a whopping 506 points and it is probably classed in the same group as chosen and longbeards. And something costing 400+ points would be good as every faction has some "big guy".

Over all, this faction seems to be heavily skewed towards offense with little to offer in defense.  This is not a bad thing, and it will probably make for short games.  But I think this balancing issue within some of these units may make them awkward to use.  One thing I do like is the introduction of Maces and Flails.  I'm surprised that no other units in existing factions are armed with these.
True. But real life barbarians are also heavily skewed towards offense. I know there is lots to be improved but I like a barbarian style army a lot so I hope to see one in Battleground soon.

I have not modified the units yet, I'll gather some more opinions before doing it.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 07:15:32 am by Quelmotz » Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
RushAss
Playtester
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2260


Eat your beets - Recycle!


WWW
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 08:51:31 am »

I know. It is weird. What kind of cavalry do you suggest then? I'm a bit bored about horses... And it doesn't seem fit to have "barbarian knights" or something.
Depends on what kind of barbarian you're suggesting.  If it was northern barbarians (close to Vikings) you could go with Polar Bears.  But with most other barbarians you're going to be stuck with horses.  Perhaps giant war dogs? 

I think a weakening of health bar would be good. Still, there is one unit (ye olde Celestial Guard) that is a whopping 506 points and it is probably classed in the same group as chosen and longbeards. And something costing 400+ points would be good as every faction has some "big guy".
Oh yeah, nothing wrong with having a severe heavy hitter in your faction.  Actually, you have 2 if you also count the Berzerkers.  And there's nothing wrong with that, either  Smiley  I was just pointing out that the Chieftains where going to be super expensive and the down side of that is that they rarely see the field.  How often do you see the Celestial Guard?  I think I've seen one in action once and I've playe dquite a few games involving High Elves.  They are just so expensive that many High Elven players will choose other options.  I play the Dwarves a lot and I don't even use Longbeards all the time because 394 points is a lot to invest in an infantry unit.  Your Chieftain unit will probably exceed 450 points, so that's the issue you'll have with them.
Logged

"The world weighs on my shoulders but what am I to do?"
-Rush, Distant Early Warning
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2006, Simple Machines
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!

Bad Behavior has blocked 2514 access attempts in the last 7 days.