Your Move Games
May 20, 2013, 10:48:01 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: New faction idea: Barbarians  (Read 11213 times)
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2009, 03:50:58 am »

Come on, Chad  Undecided



Patience young grasshopper Smiley There are several other army idea threads that haven't had the magic formula applied to them.

I know.  Tongue

BTW, any comments on the army?

« Last Edit: May 08, 2009, 01:25:49 am by Quelmotz » Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
lazyj
Playtester
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 835



« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2009, 12:43:19 pm »

Chad has seemed really busy recently. Given the choice between him getting the upcoming Dark Elves faction released, getting the Punic Wars distribution amped up, getting the rulebook reformatted, or applying his formula to your faction I would prefer he focused on the stuff that will make him money.

The fact that he posts here at all is very impressive - interacting with everyone has to take it's toll. Just sit tight, when he feels your faction is worth his time investment he'll whip out the magic numbers.

In the meantime - make up the points yourself! Take a faction that you feel you're "close" to and use it as a rough guide. That should at least give you a feel. Maybe base it on the dwarves for now?
Logged
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2009, 01:25:32 am »

Chad has seemed really busy recently. Given the choice between him getting the upcoming Dark Elves faction released, getting the Punic Wars distribution amped up, getting the rulebook reformatted, or applying his formula to your faction I would prefer he focused on the stuff that will make him money.

The fact that he posts here at all is very impressive - interacting with everyone has to take it's toll. Just sit tight, when he feels your faction is worth his time investment he'll whip out the magic numbers.

In the meantime - make up the points yourself! Take a faction that you feel you're "close" to and use it as a rough guide. That should at least give you a feel. Maybe base it on the dwarves for now?

Yeah, I'm trying to make some estimated costs based on the Umenzi, which is the only faction I've played real matches in so far, though I know the HEs quite well too.

BTW, why can't the normal players comment? I don't see you all as inferior to Chad & co. The more opinions the merrier.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2009, 01:37:36 am by Quelmotz » Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2009, 09:19:39 pm »

Does anyone have any comments or suggestions based on all the changes I have made?

Also, you are welcome to post any of your ideas related to the barbarian hordes idea that you feel you are very satisfied with.

Try to post a unit in this format (example):

Name: Offense: (1) 1/1* Defense: 1*/1 Range: 3.5" Courage: 5 MC: 2.5" Health: 1-1-1
Fearsome (or any other attribute)
(+0) +0/+2 when charging. (or any other combat modifiers)
+1/+0 when flanking. (or any other combat modifiers)
Takes 1 damage every turn (or any other special effects)

OPTIONAL
Equipment: Feathers, tissue paper armor, flowery shield.
Flavor Text: These guys are so crappy that I decided to use them as fodder!
Estimated Cost: 10 points.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2009, 11:19:03 pm by Quelmotz » Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2009, 12:11:06 am »

Revised Version

Main Changes made:
Reduced the number of units to 13
Increased the defence of some units
Other minor changes
Reduced overpoweredness
Increased health - don't be mistaken about the red health, remember, vengeful units love being in the red.

Barbaric...erm...barbarians and savage...erm...savages; fearsome flailers and destructive gnasher cavalry; raging berserkers and obstinate zealots, all are yours to command as the general of the barbarians. Driven by fury, vengeance and hatred, with unmatched strength and courage, these barbaric warriors fear none.

Faction Ability:

Berserk – You may spend one command action to mark a unit with berserk. The unit gets (+1)+0/+1, –1/-0 and courage +1. Change the unit's orders to close with no modifiers. You may not change the unit's standing orders or take direct control of it until berserk is removed. All bonuses or negative effects only last while engaged. This lasts until the unit routs or does not do a single point of damage during a round of combat.
NOTE: If the unit does not have defensive skill, it takes one point of damage.

Persistent – Units that are persistent never rout, but if they fail a rout check, they lose one defensive skill. If there is no defensive skill to subtract, they take one point of damage.

Vengeful - If a unit with vengeful is in the yellow or red, it does not suffer any penalties but it gets C+1 while in the yellow and C+2 when in the red. Note: They still have to take rout checks.

Core units:

Savages: Offense: (5) 4/6 Defense: 0/2 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5" Health: 4-2-4
Persistent.
Equipment: Axes, clubs, leather armor.
Mercy? Dream on, fools!

Barbarians: Offense: (5) 5/6 Defense: 0/3 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-4
Vengeful.
Equipment: Leather armor, battleaxe, mace.
"YEARRRGHHH!!"
Estimated Cost: Around 200 points

Bandits: Offense: (6) 5/5 Defense: 1*/3 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 5” Health: 3-4-4
Vengeful.
+1/+0 vs range.
Equipment: Dark leather armor, spiked clubs, spears, maces, etc.
These dodgy bandits are experienced in the art of dodging arrows.
Estimated Cost: Around 220 points

Axe Hurlers: Offense: (5) 4*/5* Defense: 1*/2 Range: 7" Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-3-4
Vengeful.
(+0) +1/+1 and +1/+0 when engaged.
No penalty for move and shoot.
Equipment: Leather armor, shield, hand axe, throwing axes.
Getting executed is bad enough, but when you get executed from afar...
Estimated cost: Around 240 points

Maulers: Offense: (5) 5/7 Defense: 0/3 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-4
No charge bonuses.
Equipment: Leather armor and maul.
These mauls can really maul people- why are they called mauls then?
Estimated Cost: Around 260 points

Fishermen: Offense: (5) 4/4 Defense: 1/1 Range: 3.5” Courage: 10 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-2-3
May not be given berserk.
Equipment: Leather armor, fishing rods improvised as whips, harpoons.
Even the fishermen are forced to take part in wars.
Estimated Cost: Around 90 points

Standard units:

Druids: Offense: (4) 4/3 Defense: 1/1 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 3.5" Health: 3-2-1
May not be given berserk.
Prediction. During your movement and command phase, if you have a unit of druids, you may look at the top 3 cards of your opponent's command card deck. You may spend a command action to put one command card at the bottom of the deck. You may also choose to spend 2 command actions to shuffle his deck.
Fog of mystery. While a unit within 7" range of the druids is being attacked, you may change one of the opponent's die into a "5". You may only use this ability on a unit once per turn per unit. Using this ability counts as playing a command card.
Equipment: Hood, robe, staff.
Estimated Cost: Around 130 points.

Important Note: With all the new defensive stats, I don't think these units are necesary any more. If it is removed, it'll give me a lot of space to put in some of my interesting units I have in store.

Flailers: Offense: (6) 6/6 Defense: 2*/2 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-3-6
Vengeful.
Fearsome.
No other unit may engage a unit engaged with flailers, but flailers can pinch.
-1/-0 when being pinched or pinching.
The friendly unit(s) that is/are engaged with the same unit as the flailers gets C-1.
Equipment: Flail, shield, chainmail armor.
No one dares to interfere with these fearsome fighters.
Estimated cost: Around 320 points

Hunters: Offense: (6*) 5*/5* Defense: 3*/0 Range: 3.5" Courage: 12 MC: 5" Health: 3-4-4
Vengeful.
(-1) -0/-0 when charging.
(+0) +1/+0 vs cavalry/large units.
(+0) +0/+2 when holding vs charging cavalry/large units.
+1/+0 vs range.
Javelin rules. Free attack before engaging unless final rushed on the flank/rear or gets pinched.
Equipment: Javelins, spear, leather armor.
These ruthless and savage hunters fear no beast.

Zealots: Offense: (7*) 5/6 Defense: 1*/3* Range:- Courage: 14 MC: 5" Health: 6-2-2
Persistent.
Fearsome.
Passes all fear checks.
+0/+1 vs range.
Permanently on close and may not be given other standing order modifiers or directly controlled. When assigning standing orders, an objective unit must be given.
(-1) -0/-0 and -1/-0
Equipment: Spiked flails, spiked maces, battleaxes, spiked clubs, etc.
Zealots have been fighting years for an unknown cause which spurs them on.
Estimated cost: Around 280 points

Elite units:

Gnasher Cavalry: Offense: (6) 5*/7 Defense: 1/3* Range:- Courage: 14 MC: 5" Health: 4-2-2
Persistent.
Cavalry.
Fearsome.
(+0) +1/+0 and +0/+1 when charging (this is in addition to the normal charging bonuses).
Always has 1 impact hit, even when charging.
Equipment: Battleaxes, maces, warhammers, chainmail armor.
Gnashers are huge creatures with incredibly strong jaws. They are infamous for their uncontrollable temper.
Estimated cost: Around 370 points

Berserkers: Offense: (7) 5/7 Defense: 0/3 Range:- Courage: 14 MC: 3.5” Health: 5-2-5
Persistent.
Vengeful.
Fearsome.
Permanently on close and may not be given a standing order modifer or directly controlled.
Equipment: Battleaxes, spiked maces and leather armor.
Barabarians are brutal, zealots are vicious, executors are deadly, but berserkers are all three.
Estimated cost: Around 350 points

Chieftains: Offense: (6) 6/6 Defense: 2/3 Range:- Courage: 14 MC 3.5” Health: 5-3-4
Vengeful.
Persistent.
Equipment: Chainmail armor, bludgeons, battleaxes and shield.
Only elite berserkers or gnasher riders may take on the role of a chieftain.
Estimated cost: Around 440 points

Command Cards:

Ruthless Fury x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. A unit with berserk gets (+0) +1/+0 and negates the first point of damage in combat. Otherwise, it only gets (+0) +1/+0.

Resilience x2: Play during an attack, before your opponent rolls to hit. The unit gets +1/+1 if the enemy is using ranged fire. Otherwise, it gets +0/+1

Aggressiveness x1: Play during the Movement and Command phase. A unit of your choice that will engage/is engaged this turn gets another round of combat after the first round.

Brutality x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. If you do 3 or more damage to the enemy, destroy the enemy unit. P.S. Don't use this on a "berserked" berserker charging into a peasant mob.

Throwing weapons x1: Play on a unit before initiating combat. The unit gets a range of +5” for the duration of your turn. If an enemy unit engages that unit the next round, the unit’s offense is (–1) -1/-1. If the unit is engaged, it may attack any other unit other than units engaged with it within a 5" range (no additional range granted though).

Intimidate x1: Play before or after combat, in the pre-combat courage phase or post-combat courage phase. Play on an enemy engaged with one of your units. If the enemy unit has lesser health than your unit, it takes a rout check.  If not, its courage gets –1 permanently.

Reckless Fury x1: Play during an attack, before any other command cards are played. Neither player may play any other command cards during this attack. If you fail to do any damage during the attack, do one damage instead.

Summary:

The barbarian army generally lacks offense skill and defense skill, but they usually have large amounts of dice and high power. Their courage is generally above average too. They have average movement speed and toughness. This army revolves around melee units, although there are cavalry and ranged units. The cost of these units are generally (still have not gotten the point costs yet).

~~~~~

There. I hope its more balanced now. Feel free to state where I went wrong or give your own suggestions.  Cheesy

« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 08:50:52 pm by Quelmotz » Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2009, 08:12:12 am »

Does anyone have any comments at all?  Undecided
Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
RushAss
Playtester
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2249


Eat your beets - Recycle!


WWW
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2009, 09:13:31 am »

I've commented on the units, but have not commented on the command cards.  So I'll give it a whirl!
Ruthless Fury x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. A unit with berserk gets (+0) +1/+0 and negates the first point of damage in combat. Otherwise, it only gets (+0) +1/+0.
Interesting how you integrate the faction ability with a command card.  That's certainly a new spin on things.  I like it!

Resilience x2: Play during an attack, before your opponent rolls to hit. The unit gets +1/+1 if the enemy is using ranged fire. Otherwise, it gets +0/+1
That's a tough one to quantify.  What do you mean by "if the enemy is using ranged fire"?  Does that mean if he has fielded any ranged units, or that those units actually fired on something?  What if all available ranged units are out of effective range.  Can you still play the card?  And what if the enemy is fielding battlemages and they are using their ability to draw cards.  Is the opponent still using ranged fire?

Aggressiveness x1: Play during the Movement and Command phase. A unit of your choice that will engage/is engaged this turn gets another round of combat after the first round.
That may be too strong if played on a super unit.

Brutality x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. If you do 3 or more damage to the enemy, destroy the enemy unit. P.S. Don't use this on a "berserked" berserker charging into a peasant mob.
That's a real dicey card, but certainly interesting.  It's like gambling that your unit will hit really well.  Very specialized card IMO, but I think it fits this faction.

Throwing weapons x1: Play on a unit before initiating combat. The unit gets a range of +5” for the duration of your turn. If an enemy unit engages that unit the next round, the unit’s offense is (–1) -1/-1. If the unit is engaged, it may attack any other unit other than units engaged with it within a 5" range (no additional range granted though).
That's a far range to be tossing hand to hand weapons.  I don't see it.

Intimidate x1: Play before or after combat, in the pre-combat courage phase or post-combat courage phase. Play on an enemy engaged with one of your units. If the enemy unit has lesser health than your unit, it takes a rout check.  If not, its courage gets –1 permanently.
Hmmm, interesting card.

Reckless Fury x1: Play during an attack, before any other command cards are played. Neither player may play any other command cards during this attack. If you fail to do any damage during the attack, do one damage instead.
This is the first defensive red card I've seen.  Neat!
Logged

"The world weighs on my shoulders but what am I to do?"
-Rush, Distant Early Warning
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2009, 08:43:46 pm »

Thanks Rush! Comments are in bold.

I've commented on the units, but have not commented on the command cards.  So I'll give it a whirl!
Ruthless Fury x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. A unit with berserk gets (+0) +1/+0 and negates the first point of damage in combat. Otherwise, it only gets (+0) +1/+0.
Interesting how you integrate the faction ability with a command card.  That's certainly a new spin on things.  I like it! Thanks!  Smiley

Resilience x2: Play during an attack, before your opponent rolls to hit. The unit gets +1/+1 if the enemy is using ranged fire. Otherwise, it gets +0/+1
That's a tough one to quantify.  What do you mean by "if the enemy is using ranged fire"?  Does that mean if he has fielded any ranged units, or that those units actually fired on something?  What if all available ranged units are out of effective range.  Can you still play the card?  And what if the enemy is fielding battlemages and they are using their ability to draw cards.  Is the opponent still using ranged fire? Whoops, should have worded in more clearly. Cry What I meant was that if the attack is a ranged attack... Ok. What about this. Play during an attack, before your opponent rolls to hit. The target unit gets +0/+1. If the attack is a ranged attack, it gets +0/+2 instead. During the attack, you may change the result of a die into a "5".

Aggressiveness x1: Play during the Movement and Command phase. A unit of your choice that will engage/is engaged this turn gets another round of combat after the first round.
That may be too strong if played on a super unit. True, but I don't really know how can you prevent it from being used on a "super unit".

Brutality x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. If you do 3 or more damage to the enemy, destroy the enemy unit. P.S. Don't use this on a "berserked" berserker charging into a peasant mob.
That's a real dicey card, but certainly interesting.  It's like gambling that your unit will hit really well.  Very specialized card IMO, but I think it fits this faction. Ok.

Throwing weapons x1: Play on a unit before initiating combat. The unit gets a range of +5” for the duration of your turn. If an enemy unit engages that unit the next round, the unit’s offense is (–1) -1/-1. If the unit is engaged, it may attack any other unit other than units engaged with it within a 5" range (no additional range granted though).
That's a far range to be tossing hand to hand weapons.  I don't see it. 2.5" - 3.5" maybe?

Intimidate x1: Play before or after combat, in the pre-combat courage phase or post-combat courage phase. Play on an enemy engaged with one of your units. If the enemy unit has lesser health than your unit, it takes a rout check.  If not, its courage gets –1 permanently.
Hmmm, interesting card. I'm not sure what you mean by that, but since you think its fine, ok.

Reckless Fury x1: Play during an attack, before any other command cards are played. Neither player may play any other command cards during this attack. If you fail to do any damage during the attack, do one damage instead.
This is the first defensive red card I've seen.  Neat! I actually made it based on the Lizardmen's "Sudden strike" command card, but with some different effects and you also may not play command cards.

Once again, thanks for the comments!  Wink

Any comments on some of the changed units? I made quite a bit of changes this time round. But if you don't have time, I understand.

UPDATED SUMMARY
In case you're wondering, the high dice is due to dual weapons/rage (hits faster). Many will probably say that barbarians should have low accuracy. However I disagree. Barbarians hit fast and are unpredictable due to their fury. I'll say this gives them 6 accuracy, but because they are so reckless, they probably miss a lot, making it 4. Therefore, the average accuracy is about 5. The high power is rather self-explanatory. Most line units of the barbarians are 0/3, because they are so raging that they practically throw themselves into their opponents faces or something like that. Some units, like bandits, axe hurlers, flailers, gnasher cavalry and chieftains don't have 0/3, instead 1 or 2 defence skill, because they're more self-aware, not just some madmen. Flailers/chieftains/axe hurlers also wield shields, giving them +1 to defence skill. The high toughness is due to the units being able to shrug off small wounds due to fury. The ranges of units are pretty much self explanatory too. Ah, courage. Most line units have 12 courage, which SEEMS like its only AVERAGE, and barbarians are supposed to be brave, so is there something wrong here? No. Most of the line units have the ability "vengeful", which negates the penalties for being in the yellow/red (ie (-1) -0/-0 and C-1 for being in the yellow, etc), and grants them C+1 while in the yellow and C+2 (!!) while in the red! This makes them very tough to rout, and practically the bravest units in the red (berserkers and chieftains have a whopping 16 courage in the red). Also, all three of the faction abilities have some relation to courage. Berserk-ed Berserkers/chieftains have 17 courage. The movement rates are average and also quite self explanatory. Health. Most units that are vengeful tend to have few green health but tons of yellow and red health. This seems bad on the surface, but see the explanation for vengeful above. Most non-vengeful units, like zealots, have huge amounts of green health, because they're persistent and hard to force into running.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 09:56:13 pm by Quelmotz » Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
Niko White
Celestial Guard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2385


A tíro nin, Fanuilos!


« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2009, 11:38:45 pm »

Faction Ability:

Berserk – You may spend one command action to mark a unit with berserk. The unit gets (+1)+0/+1, –1/-0 and courage +1. Change the unit's orders to close with no modifiers. You may not change the unit's standing orders or take direct control of it until berserk is removed. All bonuses or negative effects only last while engaged. This lasts until the unit routs or does not do a single point of damage during a round of combat.
NOTE: If the unit does not have defensive skill, it takes one point of damage.

I'd have to play this to see how it was.  My gut feeling is the "erase if it does no damage" is going to be really annoying because half the time it is a kick in the nuts when something you already hate happens (guy does no damage) and the other half of the time you'll be wishing you could use defense cards on your own attacks because you want to get rid of the thing!  I dunno quite what to do about it though; perhaps it is just the price of barbarism and the reason I'd command good Greek troops any day  Grin

Quote
Persistent – Units that are persistent never rout, but if they fail a rout check, they lose one defensive skill. If there is no defensive skill to subtract, they take one point of damage.

Vengeful - If a unit with vengeful is in the yellow or red, it does not suffer any penalties but it gets C+1 while in the yellow and C+2 when in the red. Note: They still have to take rout checks.

I think Persistent is the core of an interesting idea, but there are two issues with it, in my mind.
-It doesn't play particularly well with the faction ability because you care less if it routs so the +1 C matters less, and you're quickly going to zero out the defensive skill which means your guys are just going to be taking damage left and right.
-Tracking decreasing defensive skill is a pain in the butt.  I don't mind it on the faction ability because you've got a box to remind you, but with this one it is going to lead to lots of marks on cards and annoyances.  I already forget blessings half the time.

There's also the additional issue that Battleground factions aren't novels; they're short stories.  You don't need three major abilities for a faction of 13 units.  Look at the existing ones; they have one command action ability and maybe another one.  (A few have a major one and a few rarely used minor ones, like Dwarves or High Elves.)  I think I'd be tempted to keep vengeful and move persistent to a different kind of faction, maybe summoned creatures of some sort or some kind of undead.

Quote
Core units:

Savages: Offense: (5) 4/6 Defense: 0/2 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5" Health: 4-2-4
Persistent.
Equipment: Axes, clubs, leather armor.
Mercy? Dream on, fools!

Why are these guys 0/2?  Humans tend to be 1/1 when in leather with no shields.  I'd give them "thick hide" armor to justify 2 toughness, and make them 1/2 so they go to 0/2 when berserk.

If you're giving a unit a faction ability that represents it becoming careless with defense in order to go into a frenzy, you don't need to give them a lower defense due to carelessness with their defense; the faction ability does that for you!

I also assume they dual wielding the clubs and axes; if that's the case, they should probably be (7) 4/5; see Dwarven Hammermen and Orc Marauders.  Normal units with dual wield weapons have 7 dice.  (5) 4/6 would be a good profile for an unskilled (hence 4 skill) guy with a great weapon.

Quote
Barbarians: Offense: (5) 5/6 Defense: 0/3 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-4
Vengeful.
Equipment: Leather armor, battleaxe, mace.
"YEARRRGHHH!!"
Estimated Cost: Around 200 points

These guys have the same armor as their fellows but somehow gained a mysterious point of toughness.  Is it just that they are super hardy?  In any case, I suggest giving them 1 base defense skill as well.  If nothing else, the whole army is going to get shot to pieces if they don't have that.

Their armament also doesn't make sense to me.  Again, dual wield on a normal sized unit means 7 dice, and 5 dice + 6 strength usually means two handed weapons.  You could justify +1 strength if they are just that badass, but if you want them with two weapons, give them 7 dice.

Quote
Bandits: Offense: (6) 5/5 Defense: 1*/3 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 5” Health: 3-4-4
Vengeful.
+1/+0 vs range.
Equipment: Dark leather armor, spiked clubs, spears, maces, etc.
These dodgy bandits are experienced in the art of dodging arrows.
Estimated Cost: Around 220 points

Seem fine, though why do they have 6 dice?  Are there more of them than a normal unit?  6 is a pretty odd number; usually cavalry and spearmen get it and not much of anyone else.

Quote
Axe Hurlers: Offense: (5) 4*/5* Defense: 1*/2 Range: 7" Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-3-4
Vengeful.
(+0) +1/+1 and +1/+0 when engaged.
No penalty for move and shoot.
Equipment: Leather armor, shield, hand axe, throwing axes.
Getting executed is bad enough, but when you get executed from afar...
Estimated cost: Around 240 points

I like this unit, but I'd give them 5 skill; 4 skill on a range unit is really pretty crippling due to all the accuracy modifiers.  I also once again am not sure why they're getting +1 strength in melee given they aren't using two handers; why is a hand axe str 6 when throwing a similarly sized axe isn't?

In Battleground units, less is more.  You can tell a very detailed story just with the numbers, so in a lot of factions you're going to have a lot of units that don't have many or any special rules.  Based on the language of the game, though, I'm not understanding the stories most of your units are telling.  This isn't to say they're wrong per se, just that I think you need to come up with a justification for why they vary from baseline in these ways and with a way of making that justification clear to the player.

Quote
Maulers: Offense: (5) 5/7 Defense: 0/3 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-4
No charge bonuses.
Equipment: Leather armor and maul.
These mauls can really maul people- why are they called mauls then?
Estimated Cost: Around 260 points

Why don't they get a charge bonus?  I also still really don't like the 0 defense thing.  It really is quite a bad drawback and it makes your faction ability less interesting because it is less often going to be an interesting choice (-1 defense is going to translate into way more than a point of damage pretty fast.)  It can also be intensely annoying to play against, especially when you have a big high/low contrast like that, because some command cards are garbage whereas others are worth their weight in gold.  Having factions have a "better" defense stat is nice because it varies unit values, but generally those are only +1 over the "bad" stat (2/3 or 3/2) or at best +2 (Ravenwood.)  +3 is a huge variance and means a lot of games will vary a lot based on if people draw Might/Force or if they draw Accuracy.  That's not so cool IMO.

Quote
Fishermen: Offense: (5) 4/4 Defense: 1/1 Range: 3.5” Courage: 10 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-2-3
May not be given berserk.
Equipment: Leather armor, fishing rods improvised as whips, harpoons.
Even the fishermen are forced to take part in wars.
Estimated Cost: Around 90 points

This is a fine chaff unit.  I think it'd be closer to 80 points but that's nitpicky Wink  Compare to Brownies; +2 health, but -3 courage.  Seems like they should be pretty similar in cost, these guys should maybe even be a bit cheaper.

Quote
Standard units:

Druids: Offense: (4) 4/3 Defense: 1/1 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 3.5" Health: 3-2-1
May not be given berserk.
Prediction. During your movement and command phase, if you have a unit of druids, you may look at the top 3 cards of your opponent's command card deck. You may spend a command action to put one command card at the bottom of the deck. You may also choose to spend 2 command actions to shuffle his deck.
Fog of mystery. While a unit within 7" range of the druids is being attacked, you may change one of the opponent's die into a "5". You may only use this ability on a unit once per turn per unit. Using this ability counts as playing a command card.
Equipment: Hood, robe, staff.
Estimated Cost: Around 130 points.

I like these guys overall.  The command card ability is wordy, but pretty neat.

Quote
Flailers: Offense: (6) 6/6 Defense: 2*/2 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-3-6
Vengeful.
Fearsome.
No other unit may engage a unit engaged with flailers, but flailers can pinch.
-1/-0 when being pinched or pinching.
The friendly unit(s) that is/are engaged with the same unit as the flailers gets C-1.
Equipment: Flail, shield, chainmail armor.
No one dares to interfere with these fearsome fighters.
Estimated cost: Around 320 points

Huh.  That's pretty cool.  They definitely know what they want to do!

Quote
Hunters: Offense: (6*) 5*/5* Defense: 3*/0 Range: 3.5" Courage: 12 MC: 5" Health: 3-4-4
Vengeful.
(-1) -0/-0 when charging.
(+0) +1/+0 vs cavalry/large units.
(+0) +0/+2 when holding vs charging cavalry/large units.
+1/+0 vs range.
Javelin rules. Free attack before engaging unless final rushed on the flank/rear or gets pinched.
Equipment: Javelins, spear, leather armor.
These ruthless and savage hunters fear no beast.

Again, why do they have 0 toughness in leather armor when other units in the army have 2 or even 3?

Quote
Zealots: Offense: (7*) 5/6 Defense: 1*/3* Range:- Courage: 14 MC: 5" Health: 6-2-2
Persistent.
Fearsome.
Passes all fear checks.
+0/+1 vs range.
Permanently on close and may not be given other standing order modifiers or directly controlled. When assigning standing orders, an objective unit must be given.
(-1) -0/-0 and -1/-0
Equipment: Spiked flails, spiked maces, battleaxes, spiked clubs, etc.
Zealots have been fighting years for an unknown cause which spurs them on.
Estimated cost: Around 280 points

I like them.  Not sure why they get the +1 toughness against range, though.  Also, what does the "(-1) -0/-0 and -1/-0" at the end mean?

Quote
Elite units:

Gnasher Cavalry: Offense: (6) 5*/7 Defense: 1/3* Range:- Courage: 14 MC: 5" Health: 4-2-2
Persistent.
Cavalry.
Fearsome.
(+0) +1/+0 and +0/+1 when charging (this is in addition to the normal charging bonuses).
Always has 1 impact hit, even when charging.
Equipment: Battleaxes, maces, warhammers, chainmail armor.
Gnashers are huge creatures with incredibly strong jaws. They are infamous for their uncontrollable temper.
Estimated cost: Around 370 points

What does the "always has an impact hit" mean?  Normally you only get impact hits when charging.  Also, why do they have reversed charge bonuses from every other cavalry?

Quote
Berserkers: Offense: (7) 5/7 Defense: 0/3 Range:- Courage: 14 MC: 3.5” Health: 5-2-5
Persistent.
Vengeful.
Fearsome.
Permanently on close and may not be given a standing order modifer or directly controlled.
Equipment: Battleaxes, spiked maces and leather armor.
Barabarians are brutal, zealots are vicious, executors are deadly, but berserkers are all three.
Estimated cost: Around 350 points

Those are still really brutal attack stats for a human-size thing.  They apparently use two one-handed weapons and hit as hard as Ancients or Trolls!  I'm not sure how that works; 6 is already pushing it hard for a dual wielder.

I also feel like you need to be really careful about uncontrollable units if you want to keep that faction ability.  These guys are already berserk; what does marking a box on them to make them even more berserk mean?  Between not losing a defense skill and already being marked on close, it basically gives them free (+1) +0/+1 and C +1.  Aside from that being broken, it isn't an interesting choice anymore because they get very little downside from it.  This is especially true because they have a billion green health and don't care about being in the yellow or red anyway.

I don't think every Battleground faction is perfect about making command actions a choice (I'll pretty much always mark Hawk Bravery or Lizardman Fury on everyone who might take and survive a hit, for example) but when you have an ability that good, balanced by some strong downsides, I don't believe it is very wise to make the faction such that those downsides don't apply fully to all the units.

Quote
Chieftains: Offense: (6) 6/6 Defense: 2/3 Range:- Courage: 14 MC 3.5” Health: 5-3-4
Vengeful.
Persistent.
Equipment: Chainmail armor, bludgeons, battleaxes and shield.
Only elite berserkers or gnasher riders may take on the role of a chieftain.
Estimated cost: Around 440 points

This is a fine elite unit, though again I'm not sure where that exact dice number came from.

Quote
Command Cards:

Ruthless Fury x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. A unit with berserk gets (+0) +1/+0 and negates the first point of damage in combat. Otherwise, it only gets (+0) +1/+0.

I think you meant (+1) +1/+0 for the first ability.  Also, I think this card is probably a little bit too good.  Though I do kinda like the design space of a red card that gives a minor defense boost, my issue is that that's not a minor defense boost, it is a very strong one that stacks with a blue card.  I think at the very least you should make it only work if you haven't played a defense card.

This card also feels very artificial to me because if it is the opponent's turn, you can't get the defensive benefit (since the unit has already been attacked by the time you can play the card.)  I think you make it a hybrid red/blue card that gives both benefits, but stops you from playing another card on either attack or defense, though even then the fact that "prevent one damage" is always so reliably useful makes it a very strong card.

Quote
Resilience x2: Play during an attack, before your opponent rolls to hit. The unit gets +1/+1 if the enemy is using ranged fire. Otherwise, it gets +0/+1

I'd say "before the opponent rolls to hit or before the opponent rolls for damage."  It is a fine card, but not so strong that it shouldn't be able to respond to an unusually good to-hit roll.

Quote
Aggressiveness x1: Play during the Movement and Command phase. A unit of your choice that will engage/is engaged this turn gets another round of combat after the first round.

I assume both units fight in the second round?  If not, this is busted in half.  If so, give it some reminder text just to be clear.  You can also get rid of the "will engage" language because you can play it after final rushes.

Quote
Brutality x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. If you do 3 or more damage to the enemy, destroy the enemy unit. P.S. Don't use this on a "berserked" berserker charging into a peasant mob.

IMO this card is too swingy.  I'm not sure it is broken, but I am pretty sure that every time someone plays it, one of the two players ends up hating the game.  That's not what I look for in a command card.

Quote
Throwing weapons x1: Play on a unit before initiating combat. The unit gets a range of +5” for the duration of your turn. If an enemy unit engages that unit the next round, the unit’s offense is (–1) -1/-1. If the unit is engaged, it may attack any other unit other than units engaged with it within a 5" range (no additional range granted though).

I think "play during your movement and command phase" is a fine template for this.  Cool card, though the wording needs a bit of work, I like the idea.

Quote
Intimidate x1: Play before or after combat, in the pre-combat courage phase or post-combat courage phase. Play on an enemy engaged with one of your units. If the enemy unit has lesser health than your unit, it takes a rout check.  If not, its courage gets –1 permanently.

This is another card that I'm not sure is broken, but I am pretty sure will lead to un-fun most of the time it is played.

Quote
Reckless Fury x1: Play during an attack, before any other command cards are played. Neither player may play any other command cards during this attack. If you fail to do any damage during the attack, do one damage instead.

This might be too good, but I like the idea a lot.  My guess is it could be tweaked to something fun and cool.
Logged
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2009, 09:59:34 pm »

Firstly, thanks for the comments  Cheesy!

You really pointed out where I messed up..  Embarrassed

Faction Ability:

Berserk – You may spend one command action to mark a unit with berserk. The unit gets (+1)+0/+1, –1/-0 and courage +1. Change the unit's orders to close with no modifiers. You may not change the unit's standing orders or take direct control of it until berserk is removed. All bonuses or negative effects only last while engaged. This lasts until the unit routs or does not do a single point of damage during a round of combat.
NOTE: If the unit does not have defensive skill, it takes one point of damage.

I'd have to play this to see how it was.  My gut feeling is the "erase if it does no damage" is going to be really annoying because half the time it is a kick in the nuts when something you already hate happens (guy does no damage) and the other half of the time you'll be wishing you could use defense cards on your own attacks because you want to get rid of the thing!  I dunno quite what to do about it though; perhaps it is just the price of barbarism and the reason I'd command good Greek troops any day  Grin

Maybe it could be a 1 turn ability, like lash? But I think giving the units 1/3 and keeping the ability as it is would be better.

Quote
Persistent – Units that are persistent never rout, but if they fail a rout check, they lose one defensive skill. If there is no defensive skill to subtract, they take one point of damage.

Vengeful - If a unit with vengeful is in the yellow or red, it does not suffer any penalties but it gets C+1 while in the yellow and C+2 when in the red. Note: They still have to take rout checks.

I think Persistent is the core of an interesting idea, but there are two issues with it, in my mind.
-It doesn't play particularly well with the faction ability because you care less if it routs so the +1 C matters less, and you're quickly going to zero out the defensive skill which means your guys are just going to be taking damage left and right.
-Tracking decreasing defensive skill is a pain in the butt.  I don't mind it on the faction ability because you've got a box to remind you, but with this one it is going to lead to lots of marks on cards and annoyances.  I already forget blessings half the time.

There's also the additional issue that Battleground factions aren't novels; they're short stories.  You don't need three major abilities for a faction of 13 units.  Look at the existing ones; they have one command action ability and maybe another one.  (A few have a major one and a few rarely used minor ones, like Dwarves or High Elves.)  I think I'd be tempted to keep vengeful and move persistent to a different kind of faction, maybe summoned creatures of some sort or some kind of undead.

True... Undecided

But its interesting, because Rush likes the "persistent" ability very much.  Huh


Quote
Core units:

Savages: Offense: (5) 4/6 Defense: 0/2 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5" Health: 4-2-4
Persistent.
Equipment: Axes, clubs, leather armor.
Mercy? Dream on, fools!

Why are these guys 0/2?  Humans tend to be 1/1 when in leather with no shields.  I'd give them "thick hide" armor to justify 2 toughness, and make them 1/2 so they go to 0/2 when berserk.

If you're giving a unit a faction ability that represents it becoming careless with defense in order to go into a frenzy, you don't need to give them a lower defense due to carelessness with their defense; the faction ability does that for you!

Ok, I'll give them 1/2. The units are probably too full of adrenaline/fury/bloodlust/whatever so they get +0/+1.

I also assume they dual wielding the clubs and axes; if that's the case, they should probably be (7) 4/5; see Dwarven Hammermen and Orc Marauders.  Normal units with dual wield weapons have 7 dice.  (5) 4/6 would be a good profile for an unskilled (hence 4 skill) guy with a great weapon.

Actually...the "axes, clubs, leather armor" refers to the whole unit of troops. What I mean is they're just taking an axe in one hand and nothing in the other, but some may be wielding axes, some clubs, etc. Maybe I should just say "various hand weapons", but it sounds too vague.

Quote
Barbarians: Offense: (5) 5/6 Defense: 0/3 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-4
Vengeful.
Equipment: Leather armor, battleaxe, mace.
"YEARRRGHHH!!"
Estimated Cost: Around 200 points

These guys have the same armor as their fellows but somehow gained a mysterious point of toughness.  Is it just that they are super hardy?  In any case, I suggest giving them 1 base defense skill as well.  If nothing else, the whole army is going to get shot to pieces if they don't have that.

They're just wearing more leather  Tongue, and maybe get filled with more fury/adrenaline/bloodlust/whatever. And yes, I'll give them 1/3.

Their armament also doesn't make sense to me.  Again, dual wield on a normal sized unit means 7 dice, and 5 dice + 6 strength usually means two handed weapons.  You could justify +1 strength if they are just that badass, but if you want them with two weapons, give them 7 dice.

See above on the armament part of the savages. They're actually wielding 2h axes and maces.

Quote
Bandits: Offense: (6) 5/5 Defense: 1*/3 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 5” Health: 3-4-4
Vengeful.
+1/+0 vs range.
Equipment: Dark leather armor, spiked clubs, spears, maces, etc.
These dodgy bandits are experienced in the art of dodging arrows.
Estimated Cost: Around 220 points

Seem fine, though why do they have 6 dice?  Are there more of them than a normal unit?  6 is a pretty odd number; usually cavalry and spearmen get it and not much of anyone else.

It should be "seems fine", but that's just a tiny nitpick.

They're dual wielding weapons, hence the 6 dice. But maybe they should be 7 instead...but the weapons are quite heavy, so maybe only give +1 dice.


Quote
Axe Hurlers: Offense: (5) 4*/5* Defense: 1*/2 Range: 7" Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-3-4
Vengeful.
(+0) +1/+1 and +1/+0 when engaged.
No penalty for move and shoot.
Equipment: Leather armor, shield, hand axe, throwing axes.
Getting executed is bad enough, but when you get executed from afar...
Estimated cost: Around 240 points

I like this unit, but I'd give them 5 skill; 4 skill on a range unit is really pretty crippling due to all the accuracy modifiers.  I also once again am not sure why they're getting +1 strength in melee given they aren't using two handers; why is a hand axe str 6 when throwing a similarly sized axe isn't?

(4) 5/5 on range, (5) 5/6 melee - is that ok?
They get +1 strength on melee because throwing an axe flying 20m through the air just doesn't pack as much punch as an axe being chopped down on you.


In Battleground units, less is more.  You can tell a very detailed story just with the numbers, so in a lot of factions you're going to have a lot of units that don't have many or any special rules.  Based on the language of the game, though, I'm not understanding the stories most of your units are telling.  This isn't to say they're wrong per se, just that I think you need to come up with a justification for why they vary from baseline in these ways and with a way of making that justification clear to the player.

Ok...maybe we just have very different ways of thinking. Also, maybe you should look at the updated first post. Some of the stuff have been changed there. But not much.

Quote
Maulers: Offense: (5) 5/7 Defense: 0/3 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-4
No charge bonuses.
Equipment: Leather armor and maul.
These mauls can really maul people- why are they called mauls then?
Estimated Cost: Around 260 points

Why don't they get a charge bonus?  I also still really don't like the 0 defense thing.  It really is quite a bad drawback and it makes your faction ability less interesting because it is less often going to be an interesting choice (-1 defense is going to translate into way more than a point of damage pretty fast.)  It can also be intensely annoying to play against, especially when you have a big high/low contrast like that, because some command cards are garbage whereas others are worth their weight in gold.  Having factions have a "better" defense stat is nice because it varies unit values, but generally those are only +1 over the "bad" stat (2/3 or 3/2) or at best +2 (Ravenwood.)  +3 is a huge variance and means a lot of games will vary a lot based on if people draw Might/Force or if they draw Accuracy.  That's not so cool IMO.

They're kind of like spearmen, but (4) 5/8 on the charge is just too swingy, so I decided to do away with the whole charge bonus/penalty thing.

As I mentioned earlier, ok, I'll change them to 1/3, like the orcs. But I fear these guys will be too tough with their (5) 5/7 1/3 stats to be core. Maybe I'll upgrade them to standard.


Quote
Fishermen: Offense: (5) 4/4 Defense: 1/1 Range: 3.5” Courage: 10 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-2-3
May not be given berserk.
Equipment: Leather armor, fishing rods improvised as whips, harpoons.
Even the fishermen are forced to take part in wars.
Estimated Cost: Around 90 points

This is a fine chaff unit.  I think it'd be closer to 80 points but that's nitpicky Wink  Compare to Brownies; +2 health, but -3 courage.  Seems like they should be pretty similar in cost, these guys should maybe even be a bit cheaper.Ok. But I don't have any experience in point-costing, so you're probably right.

Quote
Standard units:

Druids: Offense: (4) 4/3 Defense: 1/1 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 3.5" Health: 3-2-1
May not be given berserk.
Prediction. During your movement and command phase, if you have a unit of druids, you may look at the top 3 cards of your opponent's command card deck. You may spend a command action to put one command card at the bottom of the deck. You may also choose to spend 2 command actions to shuffle his deck.
Fog of mystery. While a unit within 7" range of the druids is being attacked, you may change one of the opponent's die into a "5". You may only use this ability on a unit once per turn per unit. Using this ability counts as playing a command card.
Equipment: Hood, robe, staff.
Estimated Cost: Around 130 points.

I like these guys overall.  The command card ability is wordy, but pretty neat.

Quote
Flailers: Offense: (6) 6/6 Defense: 2*/2 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-3-6
Vengeful.
Fearsome.
No other unit may engage a unit engaged with flailers, but flailers can pinch.
-1/-0 when being pinched or pinching.
The friendly unit(s) that is/are engaged with the same unit as the flailers gets C-1.
Equipment: Flail, shield, chainmail armor.
No one dares to interfere with these fearsome fighters.
Estimated cost: Around 320 points

Huh.  That's pretty cool.  They definitely know what they want to do! Cool Finally something that impresses you.

Quote
Hunters: Offense: (6*) 5*/5* Defense: 3*/0 Range: 3.5" Courage: 12 MC: 5" Health: 3-4-4
Vengeful.
(-1) -0/-0 when charging.
(+0) +1/+0 vs cavalry/large units.
(+0) +0/+2 when holding vs charging cavalry/large units.
+1/+0 vs range.
Javelin rules. Free attack before engaging unless final rushed on the flank/rear or gets pinched.
Equipment: Javelins, spear, leather armor.
These ruthless and savage hunters fear no beast.

Again, why do they have 0 toughness in leather armor when other units in the army have 2 or even 3? Ok, ok 3/1 it is.

Quote
Zealots: Offense: (7*) 5/6 Defense: 1*/3* Range:- Courage: 14 MC: 5" Health: 6-2-2
Persistent.
Fearsome.
Passes all fear checks.
+0/+1 vs range.
Permanently on close and may not be given other standing order modifiers or directly controlled. When assigning standing orders, an objective unit must be given.
(-1) -0/-0 and -1/-0
Equipment: Spiked flails, spiked maces, battleaxes, spiked clubs, etc.
Zealots have been fighting years for an unknown cause which spurs them on.
Estimated cost: Around 280 points

I like them.  Not sure why they get the +1 toughness against range, though.  Also, what does the "(-1) -0/-0 and -1/-0" at the end mean? Whoops, looks like I accidentally deleted some of the text. It was meant to be that they get (-1) -0/-0 and -1/-0 when not engaged with the objective unit. Maybe I should delete the +1 toughness vs range.

Quote
Elite units:

Gnasher Cavalry: Offense: (6) 5*/7 Defense: 1/3* Range:- Courage: 14 MC: 5" Health: 4-2-2
Persistent.
Cavalry.
Fearsome.
(+0) +1/+0 and +0/+1 when charging (this is in addition to the normal charging bonuses).
Always has 1 impact hit, even when charging.
Equipment: Battleaxes, maces, warhammers, chainmail armor.
Gnashers are huge creatures with incredibly strong jaws. They are infamous for their uncontrollable temper.
Estimated cost: Around 370 points

What does the "always has an impact hit" mean?  Normally you only get impact hits when charging.  Also, why do they have reversed charge bonuses from every other cavalry? ...The +1 skill was to make them equal to knights on the charge, and the +1 toughness is probably just to have something different. Maybe they're so angry on the charge that they feel no pain from some wounds?

Ok, maybe the "always has 1 impact hit" is too much.


Quote
Berserkers: Offense: (7) 5/7 Defense: 0/3 Range:- Courage: 14 MC: 3.5” Health: 5-2-5
Persistent.
Vengeful.
Fearsome.
Permanently on close and may not be given a standing order modifer or directly controlled.
Equipment: Battleaxes, spiked maces and leather armor.
Barabarians are brutal, zealots are vicious, executors are deadly, but berserkers are all three.
Estimated cost: Around 350 points

Those are still really brutal attack stats for a human-size thing.  They apparently use two one-handed weapons and hit as hard as Ancients or Trolls!  I'm not sure how that works; 6 is already pushing it hard for a dual wielder. Ye hav' ne'er exp'rienced teh power of anger!  Wink

I also feel like you need to be really careful about uncontrollable units if you want to keep that faction ability.  These guys are already berserk; what does marking a box on them to make them even more berserk mean?  Between not losing a defense skill and already being marked on close, it basically gives them free (+1) +0/+1 and C +1.  Aside from that being broken, it isn't an interesting choice anymore because they get very little downside from it.  This is especially true because they have a billion green health and don't care about being in the yellow or red anyway.
Maybe they cannot be "berserked", but have a version of the "persistent" ability?

I don't think every Battleground faction is perfect about making command actions a choice (I'll pretty much always mark Hawk Bravery or Lizardman Fury on everyone who might take and survive a hit, for example) but when you have an ability that good, balanced by some strong downsides, I don't believe it is very wise to make the faction such that those downsides don't apply fully to all the units.
Yes sir, I will certainly make changes to those who don't suffer penalties, sir!

Quote
Chieftains: Offense: (6) 6/6 Defense: 2/3 Range:- Courage: 14 MC 3.5” Health: 5-3-4
Vengeful.
Persistent.
Equipment: Chainmail armor, bludgeons, battleaxes and shield.
Only elite berserkers or gnasher riders may take on the role of a chieftain.
Estimated cost: Around 440 points

This is a fine elite unit, though again I'm not sure where that exact dice number came from. Maybe we should introduce another "armament bonus" called "heavy dual weapons - (+1) +0/+0.


« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 05:00:56 am by Quelmotz » Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2009, 10:26:50 pm »

I had to split this up due to the max 20000 character limit. Niko, why do you write so much?


Quote
Command Cards:

Ruthless Fury x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. A unit with berserk gets (+0) +1/+0 and negates the first point of damage in combat. Otherwise, it only gets (+0) +1/+0.

I think you meant (+1) +1/+0 for the first ability.  Also, I think this card is probably a little bit too good.  Though I do kinda like the design space of a red card that gives a minor defense boost, my issue is that that's not a minor defense boost, it is a very strong one that stacks with a blue card.  I think at the very least you should make it only work if you haven't played a defense card.i could say the same for some of your "dukedom of cliffport" command cards. Maybe (+1) +0/+0 instead of (+0) +1/+0.

This card also feels very artificial to me because if it is the opponent's turn, you can't get the defensive benefit (since the unit has already been attacked by the time you can play the card.)  I think you make it a hybrid red/blue card that gives both benefits, but stops you from playing another card on either attack or defense, though even then the fact that "prevent one damage" is always so reliably useful makes it a very strong card. Ok, but I don't know how to colour the wording as half blue and red...  Huh

Quote
Resilience x2: Play during an attack, before your opponent rolls to hit. The unit gets +1/+1 if the enemy is using ranged fire. Otherwise, it gets +0/+1

I'd say "before the opponent rolls to hit or before the opponent rolls for damage."  It is a fine card, but not so strong that it shouldn't be able to respond to an unusually good to-hit roll. Yeah, its kind of like your "heroic resolve" or something in the "dukedom of cliffport".

Quote
Aggressiveness x1: Play during the Movement and Command phase. A unit of your choice that will engage/is engaged this turn gets another round of combat after the first round.

I assume both units fight in the second round?  If not, this is busted in half.  If so, give it some reminder text just to be clear.  You can also get rid of the "will engage" language because you can play it after final rushes. Of course both units get to fight. You mean the enemy gets frozen in time and your unit goes around punching them to death?  Tongue

Quote
Brutality x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. If you do 3 or more damage to the enemy, destroy the enemy unit. P.S. Don't use this on a "berserked" berserker charging into a peasant mob.

IMO this card is too swingy.  I'm not sure it is broken, but I am pretty sure that every time someone plays it, one of the two players ends up hating the game.  That's not what I look for in a command card. Hmmm... yeah. Maybe make it apply only on units not in the green BEFORE combat.

Quote
Throwing weapons x1: Play on a unit before initiating combat. The unit gets a range of +5” for the duration of your turn. If an enemy unit engages that unit the next round, the unit’s offense is (–1) -1/-1. If the unit is engaged, it may attack any other unit other than units engaged with it within a 5" range (no additional range granted though).

I think "play during your movement and command phase" is a fine template for this.  Cool card, though the wording needs a bit of work, I like the idea. There were some changes that were made in the first post, reducing the range to 2.5" (3.5" if not engaged)

Quote
Intimidate x1: Play before or after combat, in the pre-combat courage phase or post-combat courage phase. Play on an enemy engaged with one of your units. If the enemy unit has lesser health than your unit, it takes a rout check.  If not, its courage gets –1 permanently.

This is another card that I'm not sure is broken, but I am pretty sure will lead to un-fun most of the time it is played. How do you propose we change it? Give the enemy unit a C-2/3?

Quote
Reckless Fury x1: Play during an attack, before any other command cards are played. Neither player may play any other command cards during this attack. If you fail to do any damage during the attack, do one damage instead.

This might be too good, but I like the idea a lot.  My guess is it could be tweaked to something fun and cool. If this is too good, sudden strike is probably off the charts.. Undecided
Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
Quelmotz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 554


The berserker


« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2009, 05:19:51 am »

Ok, let me give it another shot!  Smiley

Faction Ability:

Berserk – You may spend one command action to mark a unit with berserk. The unit gets (+1)+0/+1, –1/-0 and courage +1. Change the unit's orders to close with no modifiers. You may not change the unit's standing orders or take direct control of it until berserk is removed. All bonuses or negative effects only last while engaged. This lasts until the unit routs or does not do a single point of damage during a round of combat. You may also voluntarily remove berserk for one command action.

Vengeful - If a unit with vengeful is in the yellow or red, it does not suffer any penalties but it gets C+1 while in the yellow and C+2 when in the red. Note: They still have to take rout checks.

Core units:

Savages: Offense: (5) 4/6 Defense: 1/2 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5" Health: 3-3-4
Passes all fear checks.
Equipment: Axe or club, leather armor.
Mercy? Dream on, fools!
Estimated Cost: Around 150 points

Barbarians: Offense: (5) 5/6 Defense: 1/2 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-4
Vengeful.
Equipment: Leather armor, battleaxe, mace.
"YEARRRGHHH!!"
Estimated Cost: Around 200 points

Bandits: Offense: (6) 5/5 Defense: 2*/2 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 5” Health: 3-4-4
Vengeful.
+1/+0 vs range.
Equipment: Dark leather armor, spiked clubs, curved swords.
These dodgy bandits are experienced in the art of dodging arrows.
Estimated Cost: Around 220 points

Axe Hurlers: Offense: (4*) 5/5* Defense: 1*/2 Range: 7" Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-3-4
Vengeful.
(+1) +0/+1 and +1/+0 when engaged.
No penalty for move and shoot.
Equipment: Leather armor, shield, hand axe, throwing axes.
Getting executed is bad enough, but when you get executed from afar...
Estimated cost: Around 260 points

Fishermen: Offense: (5) 4/4 Defense: 1/1 Range: 3.5” Courage: 10 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-2-3
May not be given berserk.
Equipment: Leather armor, fishing rod improvised as a whip, harpoon.
Even the fishermen are forced to take part in wars.
Estimated Cost: Around 80 points

Standard units:

Druids: Offense: (4) 4/3 Defense: 1/1 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 3.5" Health: 3-2-1
May not be given berserk.
Prediction. During your movement and command phase, if you have a unit of druids, you may look at the top 3 cards of your opponent's command card deck. You may spend a command action to put one command card at the bottom of the deck. You may also choose to spend 2 command actions to shuffle his deck.
Fog of mystery. While a unit within 7" range of the druids is being attacked, you may change one of the opponent's die into a "5". You may only use this ability on a unit once per turn per unit. Using this ability counts as playing a command card.
Equipment: Hood, robe, staff.
These mysterious hooded men are believed to have the magical power of prediction.
Estimated Cost: Around 130 points.

Flailers: Offense: (6) 6/6 Defense: 2*/2 Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-3-6
Vengeful.
Fearsome.
No other unit may engage a unit engaged with flailers, but flailers can pinch.
-1/-0 when being pinched or pinching.
The friendly unit(s) that is/are engaged with the same unit as the flailers gets C-1.
Equipment: Flail, shield, chainmail armor.
No one dares to interfere with these fearsome fighters.
Estimated cost: Around 320 points

Marauders: Offense: (5) 5*/7 Defense: 1/3 Range:- Courage: 12 MC: 3.5” Health: 3-4-4
Vengeful.
No charge bonuses.
(+0) +1/+0 vs cavalry or large units.
Equipment: Leather armor and maul.
These mauls can really maul people- why are they called mauls then?
Estimated Cost: Around 280 points

Bear Riders: Offense: (5) 5/5* Defense: 1*/3 Range: 3.5" Courage: 12 MC: 5" Health: 5-4-3
Cavalry.
(+0) +0/+1 when engaged.
+1/+0 on the charge (this is in addition to the normal charging bonuses).
Free attack before engaging. See javelins rule.
Equipment: Flail, throwing axes, leather armor. Mount: Bear
Though weaker than their Ravenwood cousins, these bears make up for it by having riders.
Estimated Cost: 290 points.

Zealots: Offense: (7*) 5/6 Defense: 1*/3 Range:- Courage: 14 MC: 5" Health: 6-2-2
Persistent.
Fearsome.
Permanently on close and may not be given other standing order modifiers or directly controlled. When assigning standing orders, an objective unit must be given.
(-1) -0/-0 and -1/-0 when engaged with a unit other than the objective unit.
Equipment: Various hand weapons, leather armor.
Zealots have been fighting years for an unknown cause which spurs them on.
Estimated cost: Around 280 points

Elite units:

Gnasher Cavalry: Offense: (6) 5*/7 Defense: 1/3* Range:- Courage: 13 MC: 5" Health: 4-2-2
Cavalry.
Fearsome.
(+0) +1/+0 and +0/+1 when charging (this is in addition to the normal charging bonuses).
Equipment: Warhammer, leather armor.
Gnashers are huge creatures with incredibly strong jaws. They are infamous for their uncontrollable temper.
Estimated cost: Around 340 points

Berserkers: Offense: (7) 5/7 Defense: 0/3 Range:- Courage: - MC: 3.5” Health: 5-2-5
Vengeful.
Fearsome.
Passes all courage checks.
Permanently on close and may not be given a standing order modifer or directly controlled.
Equipment: Battleaxe, spiked mace and leather armor.
The fury and rage exhibited by these terrifying warriors is beyond imagination.
Estimated cost: Around 350 points

Chieftains: Offense: (6) 6/6 Defense: 2/3 Range:- Courage: 14 MC 3.5” Health: 5-3-4
Vengeful.
Equipment: Chainmail armor, bludgeons, battleaxes and shield.
Only elite berserkers or gnasher riders may take on the role of a chieftain.
Estimated cost: Around 440 points

Command Cards:

Ruthless Fury x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. A unit gets (+1) +0/+0. If it has berserk, it negates the first point of damage in the counter-attack. OR Play during an attack, before your opponent rolls to hit. Your unit negates the first point of damage if it has berserk. During the counter-attack, the unit gets (+1) +0/+0.

Resilience x2: Play during an attack, before your opponent rolls to hit. The unit gets +1/+1 if the enemy is using ranged fire. Otherwise, it gets +0/+1

Aggressiveness x1: Play during the Movement and Command phase. A unit of your choice that is engaged this turn gets another round of combat after the first round.

Brutality x2: Play during an attack, before you roll to hit. The unit must be engaged with an enemy unit in the yellow or red. If you do 3 or more damage to the enemy, destroy the enemy unit. ***

Throwing weapons x1: Play on a unit before initiating combat. The unit gets a range of +5” for the duration of your turn. If an enemy unit engages that unit the next round, the unit’s offense is (–1) -1/-1. If the unit is engaged, it may attack any other unit other than units engaged with it within a 5" range (no additional range granted though).

Intimidate x1: Play before or after combat, in the pre-combat courage phase or post-combat courage phase. Play on an enemy engaged with one of your units. If the enemy unit has lesser health than your unit, it takes a rout check.  If not, its courage gets –1 permanently. ***

Reckless Fury x1: Play during an attack, before any other command cards are played. Neither player may play any other command cards during this attack. If you fail to do any damage during the attack, do one damage instead.

*** Those command cards marked with this are not really that good, as pointed out by Niko.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 04:26:05 am by Quelmotz » Logged

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
RushAss
Playtester
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2249


Eat your beets - Recycle!


WWW
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2009, 08:52:11 am »

Getting closer Quelmotz.  And the more I think about it, the more I like the berserk ability.
Logged

"The world weighs on my shoulders but what am I to do?"
-Rush, Distant Early Warning
Niko White
Celestial Guard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2385


A tíro nin, Fanuilos!


« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2009, 08:35:49 pm »


By the by, I didn't mean to imply by my criticism that I didn't like the faction in general -- there are clearly a bunch of really cool ideas here, and you have if anything more creative power than the faction can handle!

I focus on the negative because I find it is the best way to improve things, and because Battleground cards can be a very unforgiving medium: a lot of stats-based stuff is sort of written for you because stats tend to vary in predictable ways, and a single point of a stat is a huge difference, so expressing awesome, creative ideas in that format can be a real challenge!
Logged
gull2112
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3340


From the RUSH faction


WWW
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2009, 08:44:35 pm »

Great faction! Smiley You could also steal a page from Avalon Hill's "Squad Leader" game and say that if a unit passes a courage check by 4 or more it goes berserk.
Logged

"Of course, the Goblin Bombchucker is always a solution."
http://gullsbattleground.blogspot.com/
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2006, Simple Machines
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!

Bad Behavior has blocked 2394 access attempts in the last 7 days.