High Elves - Elder Blades - and other (almost) redundant units.

[Niko White]

Depends a lot on the setting, really.  Our High Elves are much more similar to Tolkien's than D&D's; they'd be pretty well at home in the Last Alliance of Elves and Men (though the visual style is not the same as in the movies, obv.)

The Dark Elves have more of the magic, so perhaps they'll suit you better

[lazyj]

Well the HE are one of only two factions thus far who can directly and repeatedly damage their opponent with magic. (I'm not counting High Priest Umenzi who have to injure themselves first.) The Battlemages have a decent Range attack that is shooting all kinds of bad news at the other army (fire, energy, purple rain, what have you).

It's just not called "fireball" - but it damages just the same!

[RushAss]

...but still hold that the elder-blades are a bit of a let down.
Even if they just gave them 1 extra health or 1 extra courage, I would have been happier.
And yes, I guess it is true that there are more units in the High elf ranks so, we arent getting "ripped off" by having elderbaldes take up a slot, but I expected some other units to be in a High Elf deck.

Yeah, I totally see where you're coming from with that.  High Elves are actually one of the few factions that I don't own mostly because many of their units are very similar to each other.  I was also a bit disappointed that there wasn't more of a "magical" feel to them.  That's not to say that they are not an exciting faction to play (or play against) because they certainly are.  And they have some absolutely sexy killer units in the Bowriders, Knights, and Celestial Guard.

[Hannibal]

To quote Chad:  Orc please, we wear mithril into battle.

I think that the Elves' magic is subtle.  Magic weapons, ready use of mithril, even the Battle Mages.  What separates them from other races' archer is the extra die they roll and the fact that you can add command cards, which is a very useful power for the first couple of turns.  Most often, I don't take that long shot (moved & long range) to hit on 1s.  I'll take the extra card.

I love HEs, they're one of my all time favorite factions.  And while visually they look very similar, I feel they play very unique.  Both from other armies and from each other, because of their subtle changes.  Pow 5 to 6 is very subtle but very important, for example.  Archers vs Battle Mages are two very different strategies.  I've built "turtle" lists and I've built "run-across-the-field-and-thump-them" armies.

But then again, not every army is for every player.  I personally don't like Ravenwood.  It mostly sits in my backpack and weeps silent tears when I pass over it for Umenzi or Dwarves.

[Unknownman]

Depends a lot on the setting, really.  Our High Elves are much more similar to Tolkien's than D&D's; they'd be pretty well at home in the Last Alliance of Elves and Men (though the visual style is not the same as in the movies, obv.)

The Dark Elves have more of the magic, so perhaps they'll suit you better

Yes! From what I've seen and heard so far I think I will like the Dark Elves.
Is there any chance they might make a showing at PAX East? 

[Niko White]

Depends a lot on the setting, really.  Our High Elves are much more similar to Tolkien's than D&D's; they'd be pretty well at home in the Last Alliance of Elves and Men (though the visual style is not the same as in the movies, obv.)

The Dark Elves have more of the magic, so perhaps they'll suit you better

Yes! From what I've seen and heard so far I think I will like the Dark Elves.
Is there any chance they might make a showing at PAX East? 

Sadly I don't think there's any way we'll have final, printed, purchasable versions by then, even if we get some rush shipped; I suspect the physical printing will take too long.

I'll certainly have some high quality full mock-ups on me to show off and play with, though

[Unknownman]

Depends a lot on the setting, really.  Our High Elves are much more similar to Tolkien's than D&D's; they'd be pretty well at home in the Last Alliance of Elves and Men (though the visual style is not the same as in the movies, obv.)

The Dark Elves have more of the magic, so perhaps they'll suit you better

Yes! From what I've seen and heard so far I think I will like the Dark Elves.
Is there any chance they might make a showing at PAX East? 

Sadly I don't think there's any way we'll have final, printed, purchasable versions by then, even if we get some rush shipped; I suspect the physical printing will take too long.

I'll certainly have some high quality full mock-ups on me to show off and play with, though

Cool! Do you what days you'll be demoing? I can only make it Friday...

[Niko White]

Cool! Do you what days you'll be demoing? I can only make it Friday...

I'd imagine all of them, though it is just speculation at this point.

You can also drop by the YMG store on some Wednesday night if you'd like, and I'd be glad to show them off or get a game in or what have you.  That's our Battleground night, after all.

[Chad_YMG]

We generally start off with our imagined flavor for the army and design the units from there.

Some armies are by their nature homogenous, like the Hawks.  They are basically a well-drilled human army, no magic, no monsters, so the variety comes with equipment and training.  The High Elves are probably more similar to the Hawks in terms of how we envisioned them -- amazing warriors, but not all that heavy on magic, no fantastical creatures, just better than you because they'd been training for 100 years back when they killed your great-great-great-great-great (etc.) grandfather in a fight.

We added the Elder blades in part because we did want them to have more than just the battlemages for magic and in part because of the unit variety.  It's true that flavor wise a regular sword unit and an elder blade unit are pretty similar, but they play VERY differently.  One of the things I'm really proud of about the Battleground system is how small changes to one or two stats lead to very different units.  (Contrast Orc Axemen with Great Swordsmen, for example.)

That said, we generally do like to have as much variety as we can in an army...and I suspect you'll enjoy the Dark Elves.

[RushAss]

Magic weapons, ready use of mithril, even the Battle Mages. 

Hey, wasn't it the Dwarves that first mined the Mithril?  Shouldn't they have a bunch of that stuff on their hands?

*Imagines Dwarven Battle Axemen Swinging Mithril Axes*

Holy simoleans!

[Niko White]

Magic weapons, ready use of mithril, even the Battle Mages. 

Hey, wasn't it the Dwarves that first mined the Mithril?  Shouldn't they have a bunch of that stuff on their hands?

*Imagines Dwarven Battle Axemen Swinging Mithril Axes*

Holy simoleans!

I think those are the Longbeards.  They likely have mithril super plate too; sure, part of being 1/4 is just being tough as nails, but I'm sure they're pretty blinged out too.

[gull2112]

I believe the dwarves use mithril solder for their runic filagree. 

[Kevin]

I think those are the Longbeards.  They likely have mithril super plate too; sure, part of being 1/4 is just being tough as nails, but I'm sure they're pretty blinged out too.

Can't believe I'm responding seriously, but...

Longbeards would be 2/4 if their plate armor were mithril.  Dwarf armor is thicker than human armor for +0/+1, hence why Dwarven chainmail gives 2/3 rather than 2/2, so 1/4 is standard issue, thick dwarf plate armor.

I doubt a mithril weapon, if such exist, would help a dwarf at all.  I imagine they're lighter than steel, allowing them to be swung with good speed (aiding the accuracy), but don't seem to help the power of the swing any.  (Hence the High Elf 6/5).  Since dwarves are short and stocky, they just can't move their arms fast enough to take advantage of mithril's lack of weight--it would probably be an impediment, in fact, giving their swing less power.

[gull2112]

Ah, but Kevin, you are ignoring the fundamental difference between High Elves and Dwarves. The High ELves prize mithril because it not only protects as well as steel, but it is lighter and allows them to flit about, as is their wont. Dwarves like Mithril because they can pile it on thicker and deeper, are indifferent to the weight, and can take advantage of its greater strength.

All the authorities are quite clear on this.

[Niko White]

Can't believe I'm responding seriously, but...

Longbeards would be 2/4 if their plate armor were mithril.  Dwarf armor is thicker than human armor for +0/+1, hence why Dwarven chainmail gives 2/3 rather than 2/2, so 1/4 is standard issue, thick dwarf plate armor.

I doubt a mithril weapon, if such exist, would help a dwarf at all.  I imagine they're lighter than steel, allowing them to be swung with good speed (aiding the accuracy), but don't seem to help the power of the swing any.  (Hence the High Elf 6/5).  Since dwarves are short and stocky, they just can't move their arms fast enough to take advantage of mithril's lack of weight--it would probably be an impediment, in fact, giving their swing less power.

Nah, the Longbeards could still be 1/4; it isn't quite clear what's going on exactly, but armor basically never adds to defense skill; shields do.  High Elves are:

3 skill (1 base, +1 skill, +1 shields) - the +1 skill modifier is the same one that makes Orc Marauders 2/x even though they dual wield.  Celestial Guard get an additional +1 ludicrous skill modifier.

2 toughness (1 base, +1 medium armor) - Presumably the mithril armor only counts as medium because it isn't as full as human plate, or because no one actually wants to pay the points for a faction where everyone's a 3/3's, heh.

Longbeards don't have extraordinary defense skill, they've got a strange "extraordinary toughness" instead, which is presumably a combination of better armor and just being ornery.  They also have great weapons (hence 6 strength) so they've got 6 attack skill, 6 power.  The 4 toughness is 1 base, +2 plate, +1 Longbeards.  It wouldn't surprise me if some of the extra +1 is based on mithril or another rare metal in the armor; they're tougher than Trolls, after all!