Kingdoms World Map?

[Absinthe]

First post.... please be gentle.

So my son, my friends and myself have been getting deeper and deeper into BGFW lately.  I picked up Kingdoms and its certainly different than I thought it would be.  While I am actually impressed with what it actually is, I can't help but stare at the beautifully illustrated map on the box and ask, "where can I get a copy?"

Forgive me if this question has already been asked, answered and flamed upon.

[Chad_YMG]

It hasn't actually.  Alas, there isn't an actual Kingdoms map.  We (meaning Kaile, with input from the troglodytes in the team) made it using a real map and then adding in cool names for regions, towns, etc.  I'll ask her if she has a good version of the map that she could put up for fun, but it isn't part of the game system in any way.

[gull2112]

I am really into making as high a quality component as I can for my Kingdoms set. Would it be possible to have the 7th card set print out with the backs adjacent so I could print them out on cardstock and fold them over and glue them. I realize it is not the same, but it can be pretty close.

[NegativeZer0]

I'd actually like to see an official map and start coming up with some lore to back up this great game and system.  Then actually have the map be influenced by campaigns like the Jan update to kingdoms.  Have people report back games and move territory lines accordingly.  Would get a lot more people interested in playing the bonus content and buying kingdoms.  Even though kingdoms isn't written around a map it's contents can be (again as seen in the Jan update). 

P.S. Sure people could lie about playing just to make their faction win but in the end there's no prizes on the line and its just for fun so I don't see it being a big problem.

[Forevernyt]

I know this discussion was had many times before regarding fluff and a map of the BG world. Right now, if I may say so, the staff at YMG is more concerned with getting factions out there that people can play. It takes time and money to hire a writer and come up with enough backstory between all the factions currently in existence not to mention, making it so that there is room for expansion with new factions.

I think once BGFW becomes as popular as some of the other more commonly known games, then they'll have enough manpower and capitol to invest in a valid storyline and create a world from scratch. As was mentioned before, the players are free to create their own story lines and maps for the games they play. But for me, personally, I'd rather see new and exciting factions be released then to be bogged down by storylines and maps that will somewhat inhibit the playing world.

Of course these are my opinions and thoughts on what I remember being discussed in the past. I'm sure Chad or someone else will chime in and give an "official" word on it.

[gull2112]

One of the things I've noticed with BG that I didn't feel with other miniatures systems, is that fluff and and a campaign map just get in the way of playing games. When I was spending more time painting than playing and I wanted backstory for each unit of guys that I spent weeks and months painting, I lived for the fluff, now that I just pull out a deck and go, the fluff seems superfluous. Every map and campaign idea that I have had, while possibly cool in their own right, ultimately took time away from actual throwing down. I'm even to the point now where I would be just as happy to use the scenario generator card and even skip a Kingdom's campaign. I have never spent more time playing a game than painting miniatures before (I am referring to minis rule sets only). Maybe one day I or somebody will come up with some fluff, but right now I really don't miss it.

[NegativeZer0]

Im not looking for games workshop fluff but somthing little for each army would be neat.

[martin_cy]

A map would be very cool to have..

But just thinking of how to actually do it practically, I can draw a map in a few hours and it will be more then decent and then print it on an A2 and laminate it.. but how to sort of link that with the actually game of kingdoms, thats what I struggle with..

Everyone start with one kingdom but how to justify the different kindoms fighting everyone since not all kingdoms will be next to each other.. and if its capturing other lands why would someone living in one corner be fighting someone in the other corner over land in the middle?... anyone though if a solution for this?

I like to have a world map and see it change a little as the campaign progresses but just not sure how to do that in a nice way that will make logical sense

This was much easier to do in Warhammer 40k as you just say this is the planets we got fight for them, then its not a stretch to have people flying between planets etc.. but to justify it in a fantasy/middle ages setting I don't know...

[NegativeZer0]

A map would be very cool to have..

But just thinking of how to actually do it practically, I can draw a map in a few hours and it will be more then decent and then print it on an A2 and laminate it.. but how to sort of link that with the actually game of kingdoms, thats what I struggle with..

Everyone start with one kingdom but how to justify the different kindoms fighting everyone since not all kingdoms will be next to each other.. and if its capturing other lands why would someone living in one corner be fighting someone in the other corner over land in the middle?... anyone though if a solution for this?

I like to have a world map and see it change a little as the campaign progresses but just not sure how to do that in a nice way that will make logical sense

This was much easier to do in Warhammer 40k as you just say this is the planets we got fight for them, then its not a stretch to have people flying between planets etc.. but to justify it in a fantasy/middle ages setting I don't know...

Your thinking flat map surface think spherical Globe and you can fudge borders so everyone is touching in some respect.  Also think in terms of colonies (aka multiple places of control for each faction). 

[andrewgr]

Your thinking flat map surface think spherical Globe and you can fudge borders so everyone is touching in some respect.  

I don't think this is true.  I don't think it's geometrically possible to arrange an arbitrary number of shapes so that each one touches each other one.

Or at least, I spent hours and hours trying when I was developing Kingdoms, and convinced myself that it was impossible.  I am not a mathemitician, so I don't have a formal proof of this, though.

If you could sketch and example of an arrangement of, say, 10 shapes, such that each shape touches each other shape, that would be fabulous.

[lazyj]

I like NegativeZero's suggestion of just calling it a Globe with Oceans and Colonies. Just because the home countries don't touch doesn't mean that their colonies wouldn't fight or that they wouldn't invade each other by sea. No adjacent borders required.

[andrewgr]

I like NegativeZero's suggestion of just calling it a Globe with Oceans and Colonies. Just because the home countries don't touch doesn't mean that their colonies wouldn't fight or that they wouldn't invade each other by sea. No adjacent borders required.

But at that point, you don't really have a reason for the map, do you?  I mean, the traditional reason for using a map is so that you can move the armies around on it, and fight when the meet each other.  If everyone is an island, and you can raid any other island, then armies don't move from hex to hex each turn, the don't make progress towards the enemy homeland, etc.  A bunch of colonies and/or islands is functionally equivilent to no map at all, unless I'm missing something.

[lazyj]

...Which would be fine by me, as it fits with Kingdoms that way. I am probably in the minority but I really don't care about hex-based campaign maps. I'm all for shiny fluff though, and I see this as a way to get fluff that matches with Kingdoms.

I wouldn't mind some nifty way to move from one area of gamespace to another (say from Hawkshold to Ravenwood), but I really don't want a bunch of slow and clunky rules to bog down the time between gaming. What I like best about BG:FW is the game itself, not the background about trying to get to a game.

[NegativeZer0]

I like NegativeZero's suggestion of just calling it a Globe with Oceans and Colonies. Just because the home countries don't touch doesn't mean that their colonies wouldn't fight or that they wouldn't invade each other by sea. No adjacent borders required.

But at that point, you don't really have a reason for the map, do you?  I mean, the traditional reason for using a map is so that you can move the armies around on it, and fight when the meet each other.  If everyone is an island, and you can raid any other island, then armies don't move from hex to hex each turn, the don't make progress towards the enemy homeland, etc.  A bunch of colonies and/or islands is functionally equivilent to no map at all, unless I'm missing something.

Yes you're missing the NAVAL EXPANSION for kingdoms that lets you have naval battles for those cross sea invasions thus making a point to have seas and islands.

No what I was saying is to use a globe shape so that territories can wrap around edges of the map and to also have multiple areas of control.  I never said anything about oceans.  You can justify the multiple areas of disconnected control many different ways (magical gates, underground tunnels[rats], result of a previous war, etc)

[RushAss]

So what happens as new factions are added?