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Author Topic: Magical University Tree  (Read 2137 times)
gull2112
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« on: December 24, 2008, 12:26:46 pm »

I had an idea for a magical university tree build sequence for a Kingdoms campaign and I would like to share it and get some feedback. The idea is to reflect a faction that is putting resources and effort into expanding the magical capabilities of their forces. This is just an idea at this point and I haven't playtested it.

Before one can construct a University a number of colleges must first be built. There are no prerequisites for building the colleges.

Each college costs  5 Gold (please comment on gold amounts).
College of Battle Magic
Allows for the purchase of Elementalists
College of Divinity
Allows for the purchase of Healing Mages
College of Alchemy
Allows for the purchase of Magical arms and armor
+50 points per unit so equipped and gives (+0)+0+1  +0/+1

College of Illusion
May add one unit to army at setup - acts normally until a wound is recieved, then it is removed
College of divination
+2 Command Actions on turn one

When all colleges are built then player may construct a
Magical University (10 Gold)
+1 command action per turn

Please let me know what you would change. I have very little experience with actual campaigns so I don't really know if some of these abilities are too strong/weak or too expensive/cheap.
My intention is to provide more build choices that would create factions with a different feel. My intention is that the builds should be so many that you can't build everything, and that there is no "best path" to follow. Rather, what a player chooses to build gives the faction a distinct feel. I want flavor over min/maxing and other "gamey" strategems.



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Torrg
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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2008, 05:48:15 pm »

Hello
I think you have a great idea. If you build the associated college do you then get to have the merc units added to your faction permanetly so they benifit from all command cards and only cost one command action? Also, if a campaign is normally ten rounds is there a way to increase the gold so there is more chance of purchasing all of the colleges before game end?
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andrewgr
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« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2008, 11:46:13 pm »

In an early version, there was a resource called "Mages' Tower".  It allowed you to recruit Healer Mages and Elementalists.  If I recall correctly, the reason I nuked it was that the Monsters & Mercenaries faction has only 2 Standard units; almost everything is Core or Elite.  So the Healer Mages being a tasty Standard unit means that the Market is a useful building for some factions (the Horse Archers are also useful to some factions).

There are obviously ways you can divide up the tech tree other than the arbitrary core/standard/elite that I did.  The buildings you propose use the model of "building matches particular type of unit".  So to make the whole tech tree like that, you would want a Stables to allow for mounted units; an Archery Range to allow missile units; and so on.

I think that I might like this system better; certainly, it tells a better story (why does having a Market let you buy Standard Mercenaries, anyway?).  But it's wicked hard to balance: buildings that are essential for some factions are useless for others.  Some factions would be able to recruit all their units with just a few resources, while others would need to build many.  I'm sure it can be done, but it's not simple or fast.

With regard to the last 3-- the magic armor, the illusionary unit, and the +2 command actions-- this opens up a whole new can of worms.  (Not that this is a bad thing!)  One decision I made relatively early in the design process was that no Kingdom resource would effect a Battleground game once the game started.  I did this for a number of reasons, but the two main ones are: (1) it would be Yet Another variable in our playtesting of the scenarios/maps, which was already hard enough; and perhaps more importantly, (2) I wanted the focus to be on playing Battleground, not on using Kingdoms to gain abilities that changed the normal flow of the game. 

This decision really made putting together the tech tree pretty hard; there's only so many meaningful abilities you can give someone that only effect army construction and deployment.  If I had allowed myself magic armor and weapons, and officers that gave all sorts of bonuses to command and rallying, and so on, the tech tree would be larger and more varied. 

But, one of the reasons I felt so comfortable leaving the tech tree so basic was that it's so trivial to change it!  It's not printed on any cards; anyone that wants to can come up with an entirely new one, or modify the existing one.  So my intention was that if Kingdoms catches on, and generates any reasonable amount of online chatter, we could collectively come up with some alternate tech trees.  So I'm glad you're already thinking along those lines. Smiley

(And BTW, I am currently really excited about a completely new set of rules that I'm working on even as I type this, that uses the Kingdoms cards but not its rules.  It's a completely new direction, and even futher away from the standard idea of a campaign system than Kingdoms is.  I'll post it as a free .pdf when it's done, assuming it's fun in playtesting; then you'll have 2 games for the price of one.)
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gull2112
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« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2008, 10:47:26 am »

Andrew, I have to say that one of the coolest things about Kingdoms is that it is so basic and clean that it allows all sorts of "adjustments." I really appreciate what your intentions were in creating it. I like that I can try something like the magical colleges, plug them in, try them out, and unplug them afterwardswith no damage done. You really can go off on a million tangents, but by setting out some excellent parameters for the initial design you are able to focus and yield a great game.

Were I to have done that, I would have started out with this statement:

Create a build tree that focuses on magic so that a player who wanted a magical faction could take any faction and make it so.

To that statement I would now additionally say that it must not alter unit abilities or basic game rules, but focus on access to units and abilities already existing in the game.

When I pare it down to that level, all I'm really doing is allowing for direct access to M&M elementalists and healer mages, possibly abilities like the watch tower and outpost. At which point I'm not really changing anything but the names certain things are called. At which point it begs the question, why bother?

The only difference I could see is that if one were to consider elementalists and healer mages as drawn from the factions population and trained in house, then they would get the faction's abilities and not the M&M abilities.

That is the way I would go with it. Give me a moment and I'll take another stab. Tongue
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gull2112
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« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2008, 11:54:52 am »

Quote
If you build the associated college do you then get to have the merc units added to your faction permanetly so they benifit from all command cards and only cost one command action? Also, if a campaign is normally ten rounds is there a way to increase the gold so there is more chance of purchasing all of the colleges before game end?

Those are good questions.  Cool As you can no doubt gather from the reply below I am going to have to change a few things. I did not intend to change the gold amounts as the decision to dip into the magic fount should come at a cost.
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"Of course, the Goblin Bombchucker is always a solution."
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gull2112
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« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2008, 11:57:59 am »

Quote
I am currently really excited about a completely new set of rules that I'm working on even as I type this, that uses the Kingdoms cards but not its rules.  It's a completely new direction, and even futher away from the standard idea of a campaign system than Kingdoms is.  I'll post it as a free .pdf when it's done, assuming it's fun in playtesting; then you'll have 2 games for the price of one.

Cool! I'm tingling with antici....
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"Of course, the Goblin Bombchucker is always a solution."
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gull2112
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« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2008, 11:58:31 am »

...pation. Grin
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"Of course, the Goblin Bombchucker is always a solution."
http://gullsbattleground.blogspot.com/
andrewgr
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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2008, 12:26:38 pm »

Heh.  When I was in High School, we used to go to the midnight showing of Rocky Horror Picture Show with semi-regularity.

That was in Columbus, Ohio.  My favorite audience participation bit was when Frankenfurter says, "It's no crime to give yourself over to absolute pleasure", and the audience would yell, "It is in Ohio!".

 Smiley
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Magrit
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2008, 10:25:18 am »

Great idea.

However, I think there is a need to better formulation and balance in order not to tip the scale of the game. In my opinion, ideas like this can be used by yourmovegames development stuff (you know who) and become an official addition. Not only players will help shape the game, but they get recognized in the process.

In that case, your great idea will become something bigger.

What do you think?

The ball is in your court.

Best,
Magrit
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