Council of Five Nations 35 (Oct 5-7, 2012) - Schenectady, NY

[Dave-SWA]

Folks,

With Kevin's grand championship tournament now complete, I'd like to get your input on how we should handle the BFW action at Council of Five Nations this year.

As some of you know, the past couple of years we've had several smaller events, like
* A one-session quick tournament
* Historicals-only for one session
* Longer two-session tournament on Sunday.

We've heard that some of you would favor a longer format.  We're open to that, as long as it doesn't cannibalize too much from our showcase Star Fleet Battles tournament (the biggest and best FtF SFB tournament in the whole world!).

So, with eight months to plan, I'm hoping we can come up with something that will please most people.

Some ideas I've heard proposed:
* A 'patrol' format on Friday & Saturday, just like with SFB, with high-scorers advancing to an elimination tree on Saturday/Sunday.
* Some kind of flexible Swiss format, where participants are not required to play every round.
* Keep it just the way we've done it the past couple of years, with several smaller events instead of one larger event.

Many of you know I'm a big fan of efforts to bring new players into the game.  I've got an idea to have one session be an event just for new players.  The key thing is that it wouldn't be run by just one or two people, a whole bunch of you would pitch in.  We advertise it as "everyone gets one-on-one instruction".  We could have 5-8 people, each ready to teach a new player.

Anyway, I just want to get the ball rolling on planning for Council 2012.

Your thoughts and ideas warmly appreciated.

-DC

[Niko White]

We could also think about some kind of newbie-veteran team event...

[elgin_j]

We could also think about some kind of newbie-veteran team event...

Be careful with something like that.  You may find that the veteran begins to inadvertently overbear on the rookie and that may turn people away from the game...

[gull2112]

Just trying to think outside the box here. A number of us aren't into the whole 'winning thing'. I'm just happy to play and get in some great gaming experience vs. people I ordinarily don't play. Of course the greatest part is meeting friends I don't get to see otherwise.

That being said, I like the idea of a swiss format where I get to play a number of different people and where the best over-all record wins. Since we have Kevin's tournament for ultimate best of the best, Co5N could be slightly different.
RANKS
Undefeated -
Top Tier - Best W/L record
Upper Tier - Better than even Win/Loss record

Note that more than one person may occupy each level.
Rules
You must play 3 games to be considered for ranking.
Each game must be against a different player. You may play the same player more than once (for fun), but only your first game counts towards ranking.
Games are 1500 points unless both players agree to 2000.
Games use Kingdoms scenario setup with three scenarios dealt, each player gets a veto and the same for maps.

I gotta race off, but I just wanted to propose this. The benefits are that people could participate in other events at the con and still have a chance to participate in this tournament, more people could bring home bragging rights, people could help introduce new players by coaching them with out sacrificing their opportunity to place favorably in the tournament.
 

[Kevin]

Good post, Dave!

Whatever is done should be realistic in terms of both attendance and time.  For example, last year there were 11 players total, but exactly 8 played in each event.  In that context, a cut to a final 8 would be meaningless.  Also, it is simply impossible to do a tournament in a single slot.  The last game (Seth's Dark Elves vs. my Orcs) of the "single slot" tournament last year ended after 2:00 AM!  And in practice we barely fit three games into the "two slot" Sunday event.  (Jaime & I could've played our finals game Sunday, but we elected to do it the following week.)

Just a personal preference here, but my teaching schedule can make it extremely difficult to get there Friday night, and being unable to qualify for the Big Event (or being in a de facto sudden death, while those who could make it Friday night were all-but-guaranteed slots) would be sad.  Ron typically rides in with me, and Jaime has similar issues.


What I'd most like to see would be to combine Saturday night & Sunday into one 5 game multi-format event (basically a mini version of Championship).  We could do 3 regular Swiss rounds (2 Saturday, 1 Sunday morning), then a cut to a final 4 with single elimination.  There would be a consolation event for those who don't make the final 4...maybe one big 2-team Jersey-style smash up.  


Last year we had almost the same people there for the Sunday tournament as the Saturday night tournament, so a 3-slot committment doesn't seem to much to ask.


Friday night & Saturday day (=prior to that 3-slot event) would be some other individual events, not necessarily labeled "tournaments" (though they certainly could be).   Have fun with these, and casual players (who don't want to commit to 3 time slots) can play in these, as well as in the Sunday consolation event.

Oh, one request, this one is directed at Niko.  If we're going to be using terrain, please go wtih the Championship system of draw-3-veto-1-each (or some other variant, like draw 5 veto 2 each or draw 4 veto 1 each and then flip a coin or whatever.), as opposed to  "...and vs. Ravenwood...the massive forest map!  Sucks to be you, dude!"

[gull2112]

My friend Carlos suggested an additional tier:
RANKS
Undefeated -
Top Tier - Best W/L record
Upper Tier - Better than even Win/Loss record
Nothing but tears - everyone else  

I also want to add that Sunday night is tough for me because I have to get back for work Monday, so I need to leave by mid afternoon to catch my plane.

[Zelc]

Hmm, Canadian Thanksgiving is October 8 this year, so I might be able to make this again.  Keep scheduling them on Canadian Thanksgiving weekend!

[BubblePig]

There is always the chance I will take a bus to get there by Friday again this year, but I am not really keen on the idea of a Swiss style Friday into Saturday thing. Nor am I terribly keen on trying to squeeze a tournament into one slot. I like the idea of a flexible Swiss format, where people could go off and do something else or eat when they want to, and it would be a shame to not have at least one bragging-rights-on-the-line tournament with a final 4 elimination tree.

Many of you know I'm a big fan of efforts to bring new players into the game.  I've got an idea to have one session be an event just for new players.  The key thing is that it wouldn't be run by just one or two people, a whole bunch of you would pitch in.  We advertise it as "everyone gets one-on-one instruction".  We could have 5-8 people, each ready to teach a new player.

I also like the idea of having a promotional get new players involved event, but without better than average promotion, I think needing 5-8 people to man it is ... shall we say optimistic.

We've heard that some of you would favor a longer format.  We're open to that, as long as it doesn't cannibalize too much from our showcase Star Fleet Battles tournament (the biggest and best FtF SFB tournament in the whole world!).

I am a bit confused on the whole 'make sure BG does not cannibalize SFB' thing. That may have happened a bit when BG was first introduced to Co5N, because it was unanticipated, but I just don't see that being a serious threat now. Last year, IIRC, where and when Brook and I each chose to have lunch had a bigger impact (literally the guy organizing SFB was running around the restaurants looking for us so he could fill the tree,) and I would point out that if the BG event had been all weekend long, rather than confined to the slot structure, we might well have eaten at more convenient time for the guys running SFB. It seems to me we have months to figure that out, so lets just have the BG events we want, and coordinate just a little bit with whoever is organizing the SFB tournament.

[Kevin]

We've heard that some of you would favor a longer format.  We're open to that, as long as it doesn't cannibalize too much from our showcase Star Fleet Battles tournament (the biggest and best FtF SFB tournament in the whole world!).

Regarding SFB, assuming Co5N sticks with the Rated Ace format [1], I'd suggest you cut to a final 8 Saturday around 3PM so that people play their QF game Sat. afternoon, then can do their next 2 games starting Sunday late morning (when Battleground has also cut to a final 4; and few to no people are likely to be in both.)  That way Battleground could do a Saturday evening-into-Sunday event and each event would stay out of the other's way (Except for if anyone made final 4 in both, and in the unlikely event of that an alternate could be pulled into one or the other.)

Besides, the SFB room usually goes pretty dead by mid-Saturday afternoon anyway, so it'd be no big loss.


[1] ADB stopped sending out Rated Ace cards years ago--at least I never gone mine from winning Co5N in...2008?  So if they're not honoring the Rated Ace format I personlly think it worth at least considering whether a different format might work better.

[BubblePig]

Another thing, if people want to do a weekend long tournament hybrid Swiss with a final 4 elimination tree and the only thing preventing it is that whoever is judging can't or doesn't want to commit to the whole weekend, I am willing to help run it as long as I get a fair amount of advance notice.

[Niko White]

Another thing, if people want to do a weekend long tournament hybrid Swiss with a final 4 elimination tree and the only thing preventing it is that whoever is judging can't or doesn't want to commit to the whole weekend, I am willing to help run it as long as I get a fair amount of advance notice.

That shouldn't be a problem unless I fumble something or one of the big companies decides to do an ill-timed release or prerelease or something.  I'm pretty reliable about going to Council so my work is used to doing without me for those few days.

[Uriel Doombringer]

I'd vote for a couple smaller, quick tournaments like we did last year, and a slot reserved for a few MEGA BATTLES, like 2-3 players a side, 2,000 pts each.

[RushAss]

I am a total and utter weenie for not having posted here until now.  I require some Lashmistress treatment for sure!

What I'd most like to see would be to combine Saturday night & Sunday into one 5 game multi-format event (basically a mini version of Championship)[/b].  We could do 3 regular Swiss rounds (2 Saturday, 1 Sunday morning), then a cut to a final 4 with single elimination.  There would be a consolation event for those who don't make the final 4...maybe one big 2-team Jersey-style smash up...

...Friday night & Saturday day (=prior to that 3-slot event) would be some other individual events, not necessarily labeled "tournaments" (though they certainly could be).   Have fun with these, and casual players (who don't want to commit to 3 time slots) can play in these, as well as in the Sunday consolation event.

I can certainly get on board with something like this.  I also wouldn't cry if it was several smaller events like last year, but I like Kevin's suggestion best.

[Niko White]

I think it might make most sense to do the spread-out event as the big one, so as to compete minimally with SFB, and then do "as they fill" two round events (so just run one whenever four people want to play) for some newbie-friendly prizes like starters or so forth.  Other than that people can always play pickup games or Jersey-style multiplayer or so forth.  Since I'm not an SFB player and Uriel isn't either (and I plan to kidnap him if necessary to get him to come again) there'll always be at least a few people in the play/demo area.

I think the biggest issue is likely to continue to be Sunday.  In the past, I know people have had to choose between the Battleground event and SFB finals, and this plan looks to continue that.  It's better than competing with the Swiss, and might well be unavoidable, but if anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them.

[Uriel Doombringer]

It is likely that the House of Midnight will march to war against the Council of Five Nations. An epic battle is called for, as well as a competitive tournament...

Actually, it might be fun if we had a campaign style tournament... that players could play into over the weekend. I'd be happy to whip up some ideas for that...