What direction should the Amazons take?

[RushAss]

OK, here's what I've been thinking about this entire thing.

Chad made a bold move creating this opportunity to allow us all involvement in the next fantasy faction.  However, I believe he did it backwards.  He should have given us a vote of multiple faction possibilities first, then we select the faction we'll work with.  He basically said "We're doing Amazons guys, go nuts!" and we are now experiencing an opposite phenomenon where we're are getting multiple faction possibilities derived from a single one.  I think we should keep all of these ideas for a future Amazon faction, but we should start from scratch and have Chad provide us with another pole so we can select the faction we want and then run with it.  If Amazons receive the majority of the vote, then we carry on.  I say this because I see a ton of shoehorning going on and I'm thinking that we are advancing beyond Chad's original vision.  Historically, there's really 2 ways you can take a faction that will be called Amazons.  They will either be derived from the Greek legends, or be a South American type tribal society.  Anything else and you'll have to call them Warrior Maidens or something like that.  Having a defensive profile of x/3 for either of these really doesn't make sense.  Also, we already have a Greek army coming down the pipe and we have Umenzi which seem close to the tribal Amazons.

Thoughts?

[gornhorror]

I agree wholeheartedly with Russ Ass here.  When I think of Amazons, I think of scantily clad female warriors with high skill and speed.  I don't think of women in plate armor going head to head with there male counterparts.  I really think if an Amazon faction is created the defensive stats should be something like 2/2, 3/1 or 4/1.  Basically hard to hit, easy to damage.  I also like DaveC's suggestion about having some cavalry and archery with these particular units.  That is a good idea.  I think they should be a quick strike faction that starts out strong and fades fast once(and if) you survive the initial onslaught.  That being said, some of the elite units could make up for some of the basic unit's weaknesses.  How about some jungle creatures to aid them?  Like a jaguar unit, or some cool elephant units.  Just some thoughts. 

For now, I'm going to concentrate my efforts on my "deep dwarves" faction.  I have some ideas that I hope people will like.  I'm in the process of making some proxy cards and will play test the army with my group.  Once I think they are ready, I will post the faction in the appropriate topic.  I am really partial to elves(just ask anybody  ), but there are already 3 elf factions.  I think the dwarves are getting the short end of the stick!!!!  Haha...that's funny.....

[Zelc]

I've thought about it some more, and here's my newbie 2 cents.

I agree with Rush that we didn't really start this process off well.  We seem to have started with the goal of doing Amazons, but also of releasing a high-toughness faction.  Unfortunately, I think this led to quite a bit of shoe-horning as we tried to satisfy both goals.  Maybe we should start over and do one of the following:

- Have Chad propose a concept, i.e. "a High Toughness faction".  Brainstorm different faction ideas that could qualify, providing the general faction fluff and crunch (army strengths and limitations) for each.  Start a poll, pick one of the factions, then get down to designing the faction guided by the fluff and crunch.  Those shouldn't change much over the course of designing the faction unless something unexpected happens.

- Have Chad propose a faction idea, i.e. "Amazons/Warrior Women".  Brainstorm different fluff and crunch that fit that faction.  Start a poll, pick one of the factions, then get down to designing the faction guided by the fluff and crunch.  Those shouldn't change much over the course of designing the faction unless something unexpected happens.

[rog5]

Throwing another two cents in...

   It does feel like two separate concepts (amazon/high toughness) are being thrown together with the result not mixing well.  In full agreement with the proposal of separating the two and choosing one.

[Chad_YMG]

I agree with the last several posts.

I didn't have it quite as clearly in mind as Niko did that we really need this next faction to be high-toughness (or, more specifically, a faction you'd rather have a six power against than a six skill).  So here's what we're going to do:

We'll continue to develop the Amazons using the Arete/Homeric flavor and a 2/2 defensive profile.  This will NOT, however, be the next faction released for fantasy.

Back in the faction development section I've put up a thread for brainstorming new ideas.  We'll make a poll out of the best ones there (or if one blows me away I may just declare it) and then we'll restart this with more clear guidelines for community input.

[RushAss]

Back in the faction development section I've put up a thread for brainstorming new ideas.  We'll make a poll out of the best ones there (or if one blows me away I may just declare it) and then we'll restart this with more clear guidelines for community input.

Cool!

Again, I think what you did here with the Amazons was a brave and wonderful thing.  I just think the inception was off.  I just don't want off as criticizing you or anything like that.

[gull2112]

This reminds me of Ben Franklin's story about the guy who asked a number of freinds about what his sign should say for his hat business. Basically, the point was that creativity and committees don't work. I think if the DE had been this open we would never have done them....and would have missed out on a really cool faction.

[elgin_j]

This reminds me of Ben Franklin's story about the guy who asked a number of freinds about what his sign should say for his hat business. Basically, the point was that creativity and committees don't work. I think if the DE had been this open we would never have done them....and would have missed out on a really cool faction.

Yes and no.  You are right but only insomuch there was a fundamental issue with the concept of 'tough' Amazons and the perception of the audience.  While a single lead is required to make a decision soliciting advice from elsewhere is good practice and is a fundamental part of the game development process - game testing.

[Hamilcar]

Homeric/Greek - Covered in historicals
Jungle = Umenzi

Norse is the way to go - can cross-over as an historical force, too.

[Hannibal]

Homeric/Greek - Covered in historicals

Not really.  When the artwork for the Greeks come out you'll see they look little like archetypal (i.e. Hollywood's version of) Classical Greeks.  The Homeric image of horsehair plumed helmets and shining breastplates would be something that could be done by the Amazons.

Norse is the way to go - can cross-over as an historical force, too.

Oh no they can't!  There is no historical evidence of Amazon-Valkyries fighting during the Norse invasions of Europe.  None.

[Chad_YMG]

This reminds me of Ben Franklin's story about the guy who asked a number of freinds about what his sign should say for his hat business. Basically, the point was that creativity and committees don't work. I think if the DE had been this open we would never have done them....and would have missed out on a really cool faction.

Yes and no.  You are right but only insomuch there was a fundamental issue with the concept of 'tough' Amazons and the perception of the audience.  While a single lead is required to make a decision soliciting advice from elsewhere is good practice and is a fundamental part of the game development process - game testing.

Agreed.  I think the lesson we've learned here is that the lead can and should get suggestions and input from the crowd but then has to chose a single direction rather than trying (as I did) to incorporate lots of cool things from different conceptions that ultimately diluted what made each one of them good.

[gull2112]

So we're going with two new and different Amazon factions?!