Fear = Useless

[gull2112]

Okay, here I go.

Shaken (-1 die) -- to go along with Afraid (-1)-1/-1

A fearsome unit will cause any enemy unit it engages to become stirred (-1) die.
A unit must make a courage check when it becomes stirred, if it fails, it is becomes shaken (-1)-1/-1 not stirred.

[Kevin]

OK, not trying to break the consensus here, but here's one last little variable I'd like to see considered, sort of along the lines of what Marcus said:

I'd like to see units which do not have to make, or automatically pass, fear checks not affected by the -1 die, since they're, you know, immune to fear.

Examples of these would be the Dwarven Longbeards, Umenzi Berserkers, the mindless Undead (skeletons, etc.), and Ravenwood's "Aspect of Wolverine" command card.

[gull2112]

I always assumed that units that were immune to fear were immune to these fear rules also. Otherwise the interpretation gets really jinky and I'd rather not go there.

[ajax98]

Ah, yes! Immunities! Line up here, get your stirred immunities shots!

Whenever there is a good question there will be a list of exceptions

[Quelmotz]

Let's just put it this way:

"Any unit that "Passes all fear checks" or "Passes all courage checks" or has the effect of passing all courage or fear checks due to a command card does not receive the (-1) -0/-0 penalty when engaged with a fearsome/terrifying unit."

[Niko White]

The way we've written it is that both Shaken and Afraid are based on rolling an actual courage check.

If you roll the check at all, you're Shaken for (-1) -0/-0.  If you fail, you're also Afraid for an additional (-0) -1/-1.  If you don't need to roll at all, nothing happens, as now.

Basically this change only has any impact when you have to take the check, but succeed.  In the other two cases (auto pass and failure) there's no change from the current rules.

[lazyj]

I think this is my current record for replies to a thread I started. I'm so proud of myself for stirring up trouble! 

The way Niko just phrased it makes me happy and I look forward to playing with those rules next time!

[Chad_YMG]

OK, not trying to break the consensus here, but here's one last little variable I'd like to see considered, sort of along the lines of what Marcus said:

I'd like to see units which do not have to make, or automatically pass, fear checks not affected by the -1 die, since they're, you know, immune to fear.

Examples of these would be the Dwarven Longbeards, Umenzi Berserkers, the mindless Undead (skeletons, etc.), and Ravenwood's "Aspect of Wolverine" command card.

Absolutely.  Units that are immune to a type of courage check are completely immune.  I'll remind Niko to make sure the rules are clear on this.

[RushAss]

Sorry, don't know where the -1 courage came from -- I meant -1 die.

Niko has proposed a new term -- Shaken (-1 die) -- to go along with Afraid (-1)-1/-1 (or whatever our official term is now).  If you fail a fear check you're Afraid.  If you pass, you're still Shaken for the turn.

This also means that we can, if we wish, use Shaken as a generic effect with a range of causes.

(Waits for the inevitable questions about the effect of being Stirred.)

"I'll take that fear check right now, my dear..."

[gull2112]

This is a suggestion/request. The rule should be written quite unambiguously and then a follow up comment on those units that are immune rather than making an in-text qualification. Example:
Fear
Blah blah (-1) blah blah blah blah blah (-1)/-1/-1
Exception Units immune to fear are immune to all fear effects.

as opposed to replacing a reference to a "unit" with "non immune to fear unit" and writing it all into one sentence where the aim for concision actually obscures the rule and makes it harder to understand, even if it is technically accurate.

The rules for DBM were written with every possible variance included in sub clauses of the sentence with the end result being very hard to read. It was however, concise as all hell.

[jhenke]

Woah.

New rule.

I'm not sure about this (-1).

Gull rolls: hmmm...Nope I don't like it, don't like it at all--it's going to ruin this great game. I remember when it WAS a great game! Yesterday I mean. (-1) -1/-1

LazyJ rolls: what? New rule? OK. Bring it and let's see what happens.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell right?

[kemchua]

Fear is dirt cheap, as it should be.


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[lazyj]

This new rule was immensely more satisfying to play with and against. Just sayin'.

[Mexico]

Check here for my playtest of skeleton infantry using fear rules:

http://yourmovegames.com/forum/index.php/topic,1359.0.html

[jhenke]

Woah.

New rule.

I'm not sure about this (-1).

Gull rolls: hmmm...Nope I don't like it, don't like it at all--it's going to ruin this great game. I remember when it WAS a great game! Yesterday I mean. (-1) -1/-1

LazyJ rolls: what? New rule? OK. Bring it and let's see what happens.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell right?

I was being tongue in cheek here teasing Mike and Lazy.

I've been slaughtered at work (16 hour days), but the new rule is working well for me. I may be spacing something, but it seems good.

OK, have to run...it's been forever since I've been able to go online for fun and I wanted to take a quick moment to report.