Fear = Useless

[gull2112]

Very sporting of you, my friend.

[Unknownman]

Any update on if the new idea for FEAR causing (-1) hit dice and roll for -1/-1?!

Is this tweak going to be added to the new rule book?

I really hope so, it seems to help offset the big negatives that large units have.
Their size is such a detriment that this small bonus is really needed. imo.

[lazyj]

Sounds like there wasn't much sentiment about *not* putting it in. I would expect it to be in the next rules release. And really, as long as you clarify ahead of time there's no reason you couldn't play that way no matter what the rules say.

[gull2112]

As one who is garnering a rep for opposing any rules change that isn't absolutely necessary, I do think this change should go into the books.

[ajax98]

The Dragon liked it, in our Kingdom campaign Round 8, assisting the High Elves hold off a 200pt advantage Dwarf Army (Chosen Ground with Recruiter).

The Dragon escaped with One Green remaining, cinching the 5vp Victory.

[Chad_YMG]

Niko and I have decided to go with this change in the next rules release.

One of the things I like about it is that it opens up some nice design space.  Right now, Fearsome is either dead or really good (compared to a command card) so it's not really something that can be used as a cookie but with a guaranteed -1 courage it can be.

[Unknownman]

Niko and I have decided to go with this change in the next rules release.

One of the things I like about it is that it opens up some nice design space.  Right now, Fearsome is either dead or really good (compared to a command card) so it's not really something that can be used as a cookie but with a guaranteed -1 courage it can be.

I'm a little confused as to exactly what the new Fearsome rule entails.
Can you please explain? Is there now a guaranteed -1 courage for fearsome? and what about the hit/damage modifiers?

Thanks,

[Kevin]

Easiest explanation.   You make a fear check as before.  If you blow it, the consequences are the same.  If you pass it, you still attack with one less die.)  Mathematically speaking, it's (-1) -1/-1 if you blow it, and (-1) +0/+0 if you pass it.

[gull2112]

I love the smell of consensus in the morning.

[RushAss]

OK, looking at it that way I'm not too sure I like it and here's why:
Say a unit of Ogres engages a unit of Celestial Guard.  The CG succeeds in their fear check, yet they are still penalized despite the fact that they are vastly superior?  I dunno.  If I'm a member of The Guard, I'm not too worried about those Ogre dudes even if they are twice my size! 

Another example:
A unit of Zombie Trolls rams into a unit of Tyrant Spearmen.  Sure they could fail their fear check, but if they succeed why should the Spearmen be penalized?  They are vastly superior and should escape that engagement while still in the green!  Besides, aren't Tyrants kind of big and nasty themselves?  They know that they are going to absolutely mop the floor with those Zombie Trolls. 

I assume this is on the first turn of engagement only, yes?

[Kevin]

I assume this is on the first turn of engagement only, yes?

Yes.  Same as always.

[ajax98]

Niko and I have decided to go with this change in the next rules release.

One of the things I like about it is that it opens up some nice design space.  Right now, Fearsome is either dead or really good (compared to a command card) so it's not really something that can be used as a cookie but with a guaranteed -1 courage it can be.

I'm a little confused as to exactly what the new Fearsome rule entails.
Can you please explain? Is there now a guaranteed -1 courage for fearsome? and what about the hit/damage modifiers?

Thanks,

Me, too, a little confused. Currently Fearsome is a Courage check, Terrifying is Courage check at -1.

Present update (?) is Fearsome & Terrifying is (-1) 0 0; Courage checks at normal rules to establish any further adverse effects upon affected unit.

Chad's remark about the "now a guaranteed -1 courage"?
Did Chad miss write and mean (-1)?

[Unknownman]

Niko and I have decided to go with this change in the next rules release.

One of the things I like about it is that it opens up some nice design space.  Right now, Fearsome is either dead or really good (compared to a command card) so it's not really something that can be used as a cookie but with a guaranteed -1 courage it can be.

I'm a little confused as to exactly what the new Fearsome rule entails.
Can you please explain? Is there now a guaranteed -1 courage for fearsome? and what about the hit/damage modifiers?

Thanks,

Me, too, a little confused. Currently Fearsome is a Courage check, Terrifying is Courage check at -1.

Present update (?) is Fearsome & Terrifying is (-1) 0 0; Courage checks at normal rules to establish any further adverse effects upon affected unit.

Chad's remark about the "now a guaranteed -1 courage"?
Did Chad miss write and mean (-1)?

Thats what really got me too.

[Chad_YMG]

OK, looking at it that way I'm not too sure I like it and here's why:
Say a unit of Ogres engages a unit of Celestial Guard.  The CG succeeds in their fear check, yet they are still penalized despite the fact that they are vastly superior?  I dunno.  If I'm a member of The Guard, I'm not too worried about those Ogre dudes even if they are twice my size! 

Another example:
A unit of Zombie Trolls rams into a unit of Tyrant Spearmen.  Sure they could fail their fear check, but if they succeed why should the Spearmen be penalized?  They are vastly superior and should escape that engagement while still in the green!  Besides, aren't Tyrants kind of big and nasty themselves?  They know that they are going to absolutely mop the floor with those Zombie Trolls. 

I assume this is on the first turn of engagement only, yes?

The problem with "but this unit is better!" arguments is that they apply equally to fear checks overall.  Most units are better than an Abomination in a straight-up fight, but Fearsome is binary in Battleground.  In this case we're basically saying that during the first round of combat, a non-fearsome unit will always have at least a slight penalty against a fearsome one -- even if the non-fearsome one is better.

If you like, think of it this way -- those Tyrant Spearmen can't read the stat bar on the Zombie Trolls.  Most of them have probably never even seen a Zombie Troll before.  All they know for sure is that some giant dead guys are coming at them and that's pretty scary.  They're a good unit and have good courage, so most of the time they'll shrug it off, but even then there's going to be a couple of guys flinching.

[Chad_YMG]

Sorry, don't know where the -1 courage came from -- I meant -1 die.

Niko has proposed a new term -- Shaken (-1 die) -- to go along with Afraid (-1)-1/-1 (or whatever our official term is now).  If you fail a fear check you're Afraid.  If you pass, you're still Shaken for the turn.

This also means that we can, if we wish, use Shaken as a generic effect with a range of causes.



(Waits for the inevitable questions about the effect of being Stirred.)