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Author Topic: Ideas for future releases  (Read 16207 times)
Flink
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« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2007, 05:16:16 pm »

Ah, the quote by quote response, truly the height of civilized web discourse.

"What precisely makes the Umenzi not "central players?"  Why must there be Central European factions which take precedence over all others?"

The fact the original crop of armies were obviously European and they are clearly African based. Obviously by European and African I mean their "fantasy world" equivalents but you can tell simply from their dress and armor, or lack of it, that the Umenzi are clearly from a very hot region and possess domesticated animals (war elephants) that are not staples among the armies of their foes. Again if you want to find some explanation that would mark them as being from a geographical similar region again fire away.

I think you are still clinging to the idea that Battleground is superimposed onto a map of Europe, perhaps because GW did it (though whether they did it out of cunning or laziness I've never figured out).  I think any prospective fluff is much more interesting if you try to work with the weirdness of the setting and figure out ways to make it all work together rather than marginalize factions because they don't hold to an extant world view which is based largely on the name of one faction.

Try to picture a setting where Hawk and Umenzi territories could intersect.  If you want to stick to the Europe-Africa scheme, just stick a decent land-bridge across the Mediterranean and all of a sudden the Umenzi are next door neighbors.  Or take a historical example of two cultures from radically different origin points that wound up face to face: The Muslim conquests of the 8th century (too lazy to double check that's the century I mean) when France and Moorish Spain went toe-to-toe for years.


"You seem to hold the view that Battleground has a very specific setting and releasing new factions that don't pertain to your own mental picture are damaging it. "

 Smiley My views on the factions are based on what the designers released so far not any kind of mental picture of my own. I certainly wouldn't have opted for the initial factions as they are now and I wold love to see a bit more originality and flair in the design of any further factions. However, for whatever reason the designers picked the starting factions they did and I think they should fully flesh out their initial factions before getting too far ahead of themselves. It has nothing at all to do with my preference for what the world should contain (ask me what new factions I think they should add and I'll tell you), they could have started with were-rabbits and moomin and I still would say "flesh out the originals before adding factions from other regions".

See, this is my point.  These factions might be based on real world cultures that are distant from each other, but there is nothing preventing the Battleground versions from living near each other.

Besides, there's nothing that says that orcs or undead are necessarily European.  I mean ghouls are originally Arabic, zombies are originally Haitian, and catapults formed from the reanimated remains of a bisected giant are from the twisted minds of the YMG team.

"the game can just be a tactical exercise"

Why is it that the people say this and then seem to get bothered by the introduction of an established lore? By your own rational you can simply use the mechanics and any units you want to make your dream game. The existence of background setting doesn't mean some Lore-policeman is going to come to your home and physically force you to play the game in a specific way.

When I said "the game" I was referring to the specific match up of a historical army and a fictional one, not the game in terms of Battleground as a whole, though I can see how that would be confusing.  The point I was making is that you don't need to have a backstory rationalization for every battle.  You seemed to be against historical and fantasy factions fighting due to the incongruity of the backstory.  That's like having an Optimus Prime action figure and a He-Man action figure and not having them fight, even though they have the same scale, because it isn't in continuity.  Wow have I been up to long.

You can make fun backstories for Fantasy Vs. Historical games, it just requires a sense of playfulness.  Varus and his legions stroll through the Teutoburg forest when Orc Marauders burst from the trees.  The Roman invasion of Britain stymies when the Elves return from Tir Na Nog or where ever and tell Caesar to step off.  A necromancer declares that the rocks thrown by his giant catapults will block out the sun.  Leonidas responds that he will fight in the shade.

"But if the clockworks are the constructs of another race, particularly a highly magical one, it holds up.  Magic seems harder to reverse engineer than early industrial technology."

Wouldn't that make them simply golems rather than clockwork robots? In either case they seem to be the equivalent of the Warforged that wizards of the coast introduced to further stripmine the D&D legacy? I wouldn't mind so much if they were magical automatons, though I'd rather see them be non-sentient units serving sentient masters. Its more the idea of wildly differing tech levels with an absence of proliferation that bothers me. The designers have already established the initial factions as being at a typical Middle Ages level of advancement and as such I would hope that even arquebusiers aren't introduced as units for any faction.

I guess those might technically be Golems.  The difference between Golems and clockwork robots is kind of nebulous, and really depends on one's own personal definition.  I guess you could take the Golem back to its roots as a clay man given life by Rabbi Loeb.  I'm not too familiar with the Warforged, but aren't they mostly humanoid constructs?  It seems to me that there is plenty of room for development in strictly human forms, or along the lines of Clanks and Constructs from Girl Genius.  If you have a decent reason for why the faction's technology hasn't spread to the others it can hold up.  If they just randomly have guns, then I agree, it's weird that no one ever picked one up after a battle and tried to figure it out.  (Granted goblins have gunpowder of a sort but we all know how well that works)

Warhammer btw isn't a steampunk world, as far as I remember any steam technology was incredibly unstable and only used for military use in the form of still experimental weaponry that was apt to frequently kill its users (don't quote me on any recent changes though, I'm far from up to date).

I didn't say it was steampunk, just that there is steam technology extant and it isn't very logically distributed or utilized. I think THIS sums up Empire technology pretty well.


Hmm, perhaps I should close with something actually to do with the original topic.  How about giants?  Like the kind that always get cut in two to make undead artillery.  I bet they'd love a little pay back
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Runefang
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« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2007, 08:45:25 pm »

I would like to but my support behind the following ideas brought up by earlier posters:

  • Campaign rules
  • Siege rules (I for one have had a lot of fun playing sieges in the past with other games)
  • A Clockwork army (mad scientists unite!)
  • An Asian-themed army (or armies)

The (ex-)Empire player in me wants to hold out hope for a steam tank, but I don't really think that's a good idea.

I'm very much looking forward to the Sci-Fi version of Battleground.

I'll also second Enpeze & Lucas who suggested a naval battle game. That would totally rock! Maybe even expand that into a Sci-Fi game as well. But it has to have broadsides! Enfilade! Fusillade! (I'm sure I got some of those terms wrong, but it captures my enthusiasm)

Back to the basic Battleground game, though, I would also like to suggest an additional focus on non-traditional fantasy armies, I had a post about it in the Evil Armies thread, here: http://yourmovegames.com/forum/index.php/topic,136.msg801.html#msg801 which pretty much sums up that idea. But pretty much anything that's not a rehash of something we've all seen before in every other table-top wargame would be good.

As far as the background fluff goes, I'm actually pretty happy with the little bits and pieces we're getting with the scenarios and other ancillary things. I like being able to put my own interpretation on things without having to come up with some implausible reason why two "good" or two "evil" armies are fighting it out (or for that matter, why two traditional enemies are allies in a big battle). I'd rather be able to say that in this battle, the world is all about trying to beat down the mighty Orc-Elf Alliance (or whatever).

Thanks.
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When all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

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Enpeze
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« Reply #62 on: August 30, 2007, 11:48:41 am »

I think too much fluff is not that good for a tabletop game. This was one of the reasons I didnt like the Warhammer tabletop versions. (beside the bad rules) But a little bit background would be ok. 10 pages, a map ( here are the undead and here are the hawkwoods and here are the ogres etc.)  and some illustrations or so. Just as inspiration and to give ideas for scenarios.
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Enpeze
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« Reply #63 on: August 30, 2007, 11:51:36 am »

Given that fluff is probably the least manpower intensive factor possible...

Beg to differ.  Writing good storyline takes a lot of time.  I can turn on Campaign Cartographer and come up with a really good worldmap in a couple of days, but actually fleshing it out so that the world comes alive in a way that anyone would care about takes a lot of time...at least for me!

Very good. Save your time and work instead on the the siege, campaign and naval rules! Smiley
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Enpeze
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« Reply #64 on: August 30, 2007, 11:55:22 am »

I would like to but my support behind the following ideas brought up by earlier posters:

  • Campaign rules
  • Siege rules (I for one have had a lot of fun playing sieges in the past with other games)
  • A Clockwork army (mad scientists unite!)
  • An Asian-themed army (or armies)

The (ex-)Empire player in me wants to hold out hope for a steam tank, but I don't really think that's a good idea.


Thanks.


clockwork army sounds great. Steamtanks and irongolems... yeah! And timetravelling sword mages with big sand glasses.... (ok, ok the last one was too much Smiley)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 11:59:21 am by Enpeze » Logged
wminsing
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« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2007, 09:54:13 pm »

If there was a 'demon army', I'd like to see it as some people have suggested- A mostly human army of cultists (and unwilling conscripts if they are a nation/government) backed up by summoned demons (summoned in during the battle would be cool, though I can live without it).

Since we now have pseudo-africans, I'd also throw my vote in for Norse/Rus at some point.  Humans allied with Frost Giants, Berserkers, War Mammoths, lots of cool possibilities.

-Will   
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alf
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« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2007, 11:33:08 pm »

Here the way I see things as someone who loves the game. The game is young and there is not a lot of fluff to go with the this young world but as the world gets older the stories and fluff, I'm sure will grow. What we all need to think about as we put down our thoughts here is maybe we can help the game grow and get better by spaking new or adding to ideas. Jens you have made some good points but you have been a little forceful in show them to the forum and some of the reply to you have been somewhat lashing. All I'm trying to say here is that everybody should give their ideas and their opinions and let us feed off them in a positive manner not in a negative way. And let's not bush other game system if we can help it. It's not far to the other game because they do not have a true voice here. Let's just try to help make Battleground the best of them all.

This is a Fantasy world so this could be an alternate universe where European factions have never been heard of or this world could be happenning on one of the moons of Saturn for all we know. As the world unfolds and as the game go on I will be looking foward to finding out.

Have fun playing, Demoing, and pushing the game foward.

Thanks you Chad and Crew for the great game you have created for our enjoyment.
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Runefang
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« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2007, 02:08:51 pm »

I was also thinking that an Egyptian-themed army would be wicked cool.

I would envision it as sort of a cross between the mystically-inclinded Umenzi and the Undead. Have magic-using priests and mummies. This would also be a good place for some chariots. Any maybe some giant Anubis-looking guys (sort of similar to the Scorpion King).

Speaking of chariots, I could also see them in a roman/gladiator type army.

-Kris
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When all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

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Lucas
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« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2007, 03:53:22 pm »

I'll also second Enpeze & Lucas who suggested a naval battle game. That would totally rock! Maybe even expand that into a Sci-Fi game as well. But it has to have broadsides! Enfilade! Fusillade! (I'm sure I got some of those terms wrong, but it captures my enthusiasm)


... and a toast to another man worth his salt!!!  Grin Gradually more and more people will realise the beauty of the high seas, the thunder that are broadsides and the pure essence of strategy, where there is no terrain, just the planks under your feet and a fotilla closing in upon you fast ... Got carried away again  Grin 'Pshhht', if anything like a secret petition to have a naval expansion comes out, let me know, all yea scurvy squids ... have trained a hundred or so monkeys to make signatures ... just don't tell anyone.
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Ragu
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« Reply #69 on: September 18, 2007, 01:25:34 pm »

I LONG for a thematic Eastern Asian army, particularly of Japanese origin.  I would love to field an army of Ashigaru coscripts backed by hard charging mounted Samurai archers.  Hell, I'd pre-order a starter and expansion of any army with even an inkling of Asian influence.
-J
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Forevernyt
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« Reply #70 on: September 18, 2007, 01:50:30 pm »

Well, hopefully for my sake, it's Asian Themed and not Asian Historic! Tongue

It's a lot more fun when it's fantasy.
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If it weren’t for physics and law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable.
Chad_YMG
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« Reply #71 on: September 20, 2007, 08:36:34 am »

Well, hopefully for my sake, it's Asian Themed and not Asian Historic! Tongue

It's a lot more fun when it's fantasy.

It's a lot less painful, that's for sure!  In any case, with your luck it'll probably be both!  Tongue
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Laranostz
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« Reply #72 on: September 20, 2007, 02:30:26 pm »

Well, the question becomes, which asian? Wink

The two cliches of course are Japanese, and Mainland China; but there's also Mongolian, Tibeten, etc. etc. Wink Lots and lots of opportunities there, and more then enough for two or three decks at least. I mean, just going with cliches you have...

A: Mongolian deck, pretty much everyone mounted, either fast cav or mounted archers with a few practically unarmored horde type troop units.

B: A 'Martial Arts' deck, monks, militia and military oh my. Wink

C: Japanese army...NINJAS!! Need I say more? Oh yah, heavily armored guys in layered armor with cool swords, either on horses or off, backed up by Feudal Lord characters, regular army, and peasent troops.

And may I please reassert my suggestion for a clockwork army? Please oh please oh please....Wink
« Last Edit: September 20, 2007, 02:31:58 pm by Laranostz » Logged
Forevernyt
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« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2007, 02:59:43 pm »

Well don't forget. It could be Asian based, not actual historic pieces.

Now, where'd I put that pizza, dude?

Tongue
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If it weren’t for physics and law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable.
cybertuna
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« Reply #74 on: September 21, 2007, 07:39:57 am »

Well, the question becomes, which asian? Wink

...but there's also Mongolian

I kinda like the idea of the Golden Horde joining the fray in Battleground...
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