Chi'in Empire

[Karasu]

This has been going around for a little while: here's the most up-to-date version.

The small nation of Chi'in rules an empire many times larger than one would expect, under normal circumstances.  To compensate for the relative lack of manpower, skilled mages, called Animators, control units of human-sized Terracotta Warriors and larger golems in combat.  Cheap and expendable, yet stronger and tougher than a man, the only drawback is these Constructs' lack of initiative and predictability.

Terracotta Swordsmen
Offense: (5)4/6  Defense: 1/3  Range: -  Morale: -  Move: 3.5"  Hits: 3 Green, 4 Yellow, 3 Red
Core, Construct
Passes all Courage Checks.
Equipment: Sword & Shield
The basic warriors are easy to construct and control and thus form the mainstay of the army

Terracotta Spearmen
Offense: (6*)4*/6*  Defense: 1*/3  Range: -  Morale: -  Move: 3.5"  Hits: 3 Green, 4 Yellow, 3 Red
Core, Construct
Passes all Courage Checks.
(-1)0/0 when charging.  (0)+1/0 +1/0 v Cavalry/Large.  (0)0/+2 v charging Cavalry/Large.
Equipment: Spear & Shield

Terracotta Archers
Offense: (4)4*/6*  Defense: 1/3  Range: 14"  Morale: -  Move: 3.5"  Hits: 3 Green, 3 Yellow, 3 Red
Core, Construct
Passes all Courage Checks.
(0)-2/-2 when engaged.
Equipment: Bow & Shortsword
Individual Archers are less effective than their living equivalents but their unity of movement and purpose makes volley firing incredibly dangerous.

Terracotta Crossbowmen
Offense: (6*)4/5  Defense: 1/3  Range: 10.5"  Morale: -  Move: 3.5"  Hits: 3 Green, 4 Yellow, 3 Red
Construct
Passes all Courage Checks.
Ranged Attack is Line-of-Sight.
(-3)0/0 when engaged.
Equipment: Repeating Crossbow & Shortsword
The Repeating Crossbows of the Chi'in can throw out a tremendous volume of fire, but the light Bamboo quarrells are somewhat less effective than normal ones.

Golems
Offense: (4)4/8  Defense: 1/3  Range: -  Morale: -  Move: 3.5"  Hits: 5 Green, 0 Yellow, 5 Red
Elite, Construct, Fearsome, Large
Passes all Courage Checks.
Equipment: Large Sword & Shield
Only the most skilled of Artificers can create and enchant these 12' tall warriors

Terracotta Charioteers
Offense: (4)4/5*  Defense: 2*/2  Range: 10.5"  Morale: -  Move: 5"  Hits: 2 Green, 3 Yellow, 2 Red
Elite, Construct, Wheeled
Passes all Courage Checks. 
(0)0/+1 +1/0 when charging.  2 Impact hits.
Equipment: Large Spear & Shield
The only way that the artisans have managed to create a horse that doesn’t fall over is by holding them up 2 at a time!

Terracotta Miscasts
Order: C  Offense: (5)5/6  Defense: 2/3  Range: -  Morale: -  Move: 3.5"  Hits: 3 Green, 4 Yellow, 3 Red
Construct
Always has Close Standing Order.  Passes all Courage Checks.  Command Cards may not be played while this unit is in combat.  May not be directly controlled.
Equipment: Hand Weapon & Shield
Sometimes a warrior is damaged during creation or battle and doesn't respond to normal control.  These unpredictable units can be persuaded to identify friends and enemies and are then unleashed to sow confusion in the enemy ranks.

Chi-in Animators
Offense: (3)4/3  Defense: 1/1  Range: -  Morale: 11  Move: 3.5"  Hits: 3 Green, 3 Yellow, 2 Red
Core
Control 6.
Equipment: Dagger
Unlike Necromancers, who can order their magical creations from afar, Animators need to be close to the troops to power them.

Chi-in Master Animators
Offense: (3)4/3  Defense: 1/2  Range: -  Morale: 12  Move: 3.5"  Hits: 3 Green, 3 Yellow, 3 Red
Elite
Control 7.
Equipment: Enchanted Robes, Dagger
The best Animators can control a greater number of warriors.

Chi-in Warrior Animators
Offense: (3)6/5  Defense: 2/2  Range: -  Morale: 13  Move: 3.5"  Hits: 4 Green, 3 Yellow, 3 Red
Elite
Control 4.
Equipment: Lacquered Armour & Shield, Scholar's Sword
Some Animators show a talent for combat and lead their troops from the front rank

Chi-in Rocket Battery
Offense: (3)4/7  Defense: 1/2  Range: 21"  Morale: 11  Move: 2.5"  Hits: 2 Green, 2 Yellow, 2 Red
Elite
(0)0/-2 when engaged.
Any unit which is not engaged or routing must take a courage test when hit with a ranged attack by this unit.
Equipment:  Lacquered Armour, Shortsword

Tribal Horsemen
Offense: (5)6/5  Defense: 2/2  Range: -  Morale: 13  Move: 6"  Hits: 2 Green, 2 Yellow, 2 Red
(0)0/+1 +1/0 when Charging.
Equipment:  Lacquered Armour, Shield, Spear & Horse
The Animators haven't found a way to create animated warriors that can report back intelligently yet, and so employ conquered tribesmen as scouts and pickets.


Army Abilities:
Construct:  A unit with this keyword requires 2 Command Actions to take Direct Control or change their standing order.  A Construct is not affected by “Sound the Charge”.

Detailed Control:  Spend a Command Action to mark a Controlled box on a Construct unit.  During combat, erase 1 or more marks on Controlled boxes to give the unit either (+0)+1/+0 or +1/+0 per mark erased.

Spells:
Each unengaged Animator, Master Animator or Warrior Animator may use one spell per turn.  Spells have a range equal to the Control value of the caster.

Programming:  Change the Standing Order on a Construct anywhere on the battlefield

Attention:  (Blessing)  Place a token on target unit in range.  You may discard the token instead of erasing a Controlled box for the Detailed Control ability.

Stone Arrows:  (Attack)  Make an attack with the following profile (3)5/5.

Mass Programming:  (Master Animator only)  Change the Standing Order on any Constructs in range. 

Command Cards

Mechanical Precision
Play during an attack, before rolling to hit.
Choose a unit.  It gets (+1)+0/+0.  If it is a Construct, instead of rolling the dice the unit gets the following results: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.  That set of dice may not be re-rolled.
Roll to Damage normally.

Fine Control
Play during the Movement and command Phase.
Choose a unit.  It gets (+0)+1/+0.  If it is a Control unit, all Constructs within its control range also get (0)+1/0.  These units may not be affected by friendly Command cards for the rest of the turn.

Improved Defense
Play during the Movement and command Phase.
Choose a unit.  It gets +1/+0.  If it is a Control unit, all Constructs within its control range also get +1/0.  These units may not be affected by friendly Command cards for the rest of the turn.

Impenetrable Ward
Play at the start of the Movement and command Phase.
Choose a unit.  It cannot move, attack or be attacked until the beginning of your next Movement and Command Phase.

Made of Stone
Play during an attack.
Your opponent rolls 2 less dice.  If the unit targetted is a Construct, they roll an additional 1 less dice.  Minimum of 1.

edited to update for comments.

[Kevin]

I like the general concept of the terracotta army a lot!

Here are a few thoughts

- An accuracy of 4 really sucks.   Most units have a 2 as their defensive number, so only 1/3 of attacks will hit.  Many, such as elves, have a 3 and will totally own this army.

What if you let the animators cast 2 spells per turn? I imagine they could furiously be bumping accuracy up to a respectable 5.  Alternatively, you could just give the terracotta guys an accuracy of 5, maybe at the cost of 1 attack die.  But the former suggestion has more racial flavor.


- "Mass Programming" seems like a worthless ability.  I can't recall a single time where I've wanted to change the orders of a huge group of units at the same time, particularly when they all need the same order.  I'd remove the restriction on them all needing the same new order, and might even allow them to all be directly controlled or get new orders.

- "Detailed Control" seems too weak when you have to do it instead of a command card.  I'd allow a command card to be played, at least if you're only using a single detailed control.

- I vote that the rocket battery only cause a rout check if it does at least one damage.

- I like the command cards, except for "Made of Stone," which is VERY weak.  Even 2 fewer dice is weaker than typical command cards.  Maybe make it 2 fewer dice; 3 if it's a construct?  Also shouldn't "If this card is a construct" read "If this card is played on a contruct...?"

[Karasu]

Hmm, thoughts on thoughts

After some experience of designing things over the top, I now tend to aim low to begin with and then build up if necessary.

Accuracy & Detailed Control:  Suppose the army ability were as well as a command card rather than instead of a command card?  I suppose it depends on how many boxes there are.  Do you think that 3 would be too many?

Mass Programming:  You're right with this.  It was intially meant to replace Sound the Charge, and that is more flexible, so remove the requirement for identical orders.

Rocket Battery:  We're talking about numerous burning, shrieking, exploding things confusing your orderly formation marching.  How about a compromise "When hit by a ranged attack..."

Made of Stone:  Checking out my Command Card summary shows that the normal dice manipulation card found in race-specific cards is +2 attack dice, with a little extra bonus.  Therefore -2 attack dice, with a possible -3, should be about comparable.

Thankyou for these thoughts.

[Kevin]

quick reply before I go to work.

Rocket battery:  what if a hit caused the target to make a courage check or the units orders immediately change to Hold, and the unit must remain on hold for the opponent's next turn (as though the unit just rallied at the beginning of the opponent's turn)?  Seems a bit more balanced/less dicey than making them run away, and would reflect the disorganization.

Accuracy & detailed control:  Ah.  I didn't get that there are multiple boxes.  I'd be tempted to allow a rule that you may mark off one box when attacking and have it not count as playing a command card, but under all other circumstances (including anytime the unit is defending) marking off boxes counts as playing a command card. That'll make it relatively easy to get 'em up to 5 accuracy and throw a card on top of it, but anything beyond that would be costly.

[Hannibal]

So I couldn't help myself, just brimming with ideas.  This is for if the Terracotta Faction becomes the next one.

The biggest tweak I'd make is to have some humans in the list, but they're all either Standard or Elite to represent their relative rarity compared to the Terracotta warriors.  Rather than post up definitive stats, I'll just jot down my ideas & thoughts on the units/faction abilities.

Construct rule:  Have them be stupid as before, with the caveat that they're Stupid unless within the range of an Animator.  Then have them be Fearless but anytime they'd take a Courage check their order changes to a Hold.

Animators:  My thought is to give them a leadership range but make it very short, to represent the unit has to actually go fix the Terracotta warriors.  Maybe give them a very specific MC bonus like "May ignore MC penalties for Maneuvers if their order is Follow and they end the move within 'Leadership range' of a terracotta warrior."

Detailed Control faction ability:  I like this concept and think we could dovetail it with some other ideas.  Maybe Terracotta units have 2 boxes, which can all be marked with a single CA.  A box can be erased to give the unit (+1) +0/+0 or (+0) +1/+0.  Two boxes can erased to stack the benefit.  If only one box erased is doesn't count as playing a card.  If two are erased it counts as playing a card.

The maybe we can have "high quality" Terracotta soldiers that have 3 boxes?

Units:
Terracotta Swordsmen & Terracotta Spearmen:  The big question is whether to make them Off skill 4 or 5.  I also wonder if it'd be a good idea to make them Pow 5 so there could be "giant axe wielding" soldiers too.  Or heck, maybe the giant axe wielding ones would have a Pow 7, although that'd get pricey.

Terracotta Archers, Terracotta Crossbowmen, Terracotta Charioteers:  I think these are the kind of units that could be replaced with humans.

Golems, Terracotta Miscasts, Chi-in Rocket Battery:  All good units thematically.  Obviously they'd need some work.  I wonder if the Miscasts could be Core?  The big thing about them is that they're always Stupid even if in range of an animator.  The Rocket Battery (essentially the Korean Hwatcha) is an awesome idea.

Chi-in Warrior Animators, Chi-in Animators, Chi-in Master Animators, Tribal Horsemen:  All good units. 


Some other units that I could think of:
Chi'in Archers/Swordsmen:  No explanation there.  Regular bowmen unit and regular swordsmen unit, just having them be Standard.  Of course we'd probably have to come up with a secondary army ability for them to be their checkbox.

Chi'in Cavalry:  They would have some light spear type unit or maybe chariots.  Nothing fancy, just a MC 6" unit with a lance for some mobility and fighting power.

Chi'in Crossbow-Spear:  Historically, the Chinese made heavy use of the repeating crossbow as part of a mixed unit of spear (kind of how the West used Pike & Shot later).  Although their weapon seems to have been a heavy halberd, so maybe his unit gains a Pow bonus in melee.  But the idea is maybe they have (4) 5/5 with a LOS weapon.  The repeating crossbow means they get the same dice as archers (instead of 3 attacks like most crossbow) and then when engaged don't suffer a penalty to attack stats.  Heck maybe they get the +1 pow like I said.

Shaolin Monks:  Got to have kung fu monks!  My thought is that they have battle squad type damage boxes (3/3/2) but 5 base attacks to represent there being few of them but they are flurries of attacks.  Then we let them 'pick their style' before the game starts.  This gives them bonuses to their stats (Attacks, Off/Def skill, toughness, Power) for the game.  It can't be switched.  I'm sort of thinking they can give +1 to two stats of their choice.

[lazyj]

Oh good - now I don't have to go search for this post.

I would like to add my 2 cents. Keep the Rocket Battery! I was kicking this around for another unit, but it would fit here as well. Seeing as how those rocket batteries seemed to have very different firing characteristics compared to "normal" ranged attack, what about this?

Chi-in Rocket Battery
Offense: (6)*/7  Defense: 1/2  Range: *"  Morale: 11  Move: 2.5"  Hits: 2 Green, 2 Yellow, 2 Red
Elite
(4)4/4 when engaged.
There is no skill roll required to hit. Instead, for each attack die rolled on the "to hit" roll, that is the range the a rocket hit travels in inches. The target unit is hit by any dice that have sufficient range to reach it. Any modifiers to ranged "to hit" rolls affect the number of attack dice instead. Units hit by a Rocket attack must make pass a Courage test or have their standing orders changed to Hold.
Equipment:  Lacquered Armour, Shortsword

Ok, yes that would be super short ranged, but maybe it's something like R:3.5" + Die roll or something. I'd love to see something like this - even to the exclusion of the Kung Fu monks (who are cool enough to get their own faction someday).

[Hannibal]

Keep the Rocket Battery!

Absolutely!  It's a cool concept.

I was kicking this around for another unit, but it would fit here as well. Seeing as how those rocket batteries seemed to have very different firing characteristics compared to "normal" ranged attack,

My first instinct is to borrow a concept from the Goblin Bomb Chucka (but without the suckage).  A semi-random number of hits, maybe ignoring range penalties but you can't play CCs on them.  Maybe shooting version of "impact hits" that are fewer the further away you are (say d6 attack dice and 2 impact hits but -1 impact hit per rannge band beyond short).  Or maybe some form of minimum range for the item. 

I'd love to see something like this - even to the exclusion of the Kung Fu monks (who are cool enough to get their own faction someday).

Actually this is the perfect place for monks.  A whole faction of them would be boring.  It'd be the base statline + a mod for each style.  Which would get boring fast ("this is the unit with +1 Def, this is the unit with +2 attacks, blah blah blah yawn.)

[BubblePig]

A good baseline to start with, but a few tweaks are needed. The most obvious of these is that this faction desperately needs accuracy. I would like to see one command action spent to mark off more than one detailed control box, or a premeditation-like ability to start with boxes marked off at a sizable discount. Otherwise I predict a chronic lack of command cards for this faction.
The exact number marked per command action, the exact number of total boxes, and the maximum number that could be used[token]/erased at once would probably need to be optimized via playtest, but I would think 2/3/2 or even 2/2/2 might be a middling place to start. I like the idea of being able to use 1 plus command card on the attack. Also the ability to mark 2 boxes on 2 separate units for 1 command action could be a possible minor upgrade when playtesting.

[Hannibal]

The most obvious of these is that this faction desperately needs accuracy.

Yeah and that'd be the very first question answered:  Off Skill 4 or 5? 

One thing I dunno about is building in an accuracy bump like Detailed Control.  It seems weird to have an army where you have this inborn weakness then you negate it with an army ability.  Of course, as I said before:  a faction's army ability does not define its theme.  So by and large you'd have at least half your force on any given turn with Off skill 4 as you tailored your attack (and CAs) to a certain portion of the field.

I think giving the average unit 2 boxes and having them all filled with a single CA will help with the concerned CA shortage.  Also you could have animators grant a single box as a spell, and maybe allow them to cast it on deployment.

[elgin_j]

The Miscasts seem wrong to my mind.  The comparisons in other armies are with units that are on Close but are also immune to courage checks.  Given that the Terracotta units are already immune to courage checks it seems to lack flavour or function to me.

I also query an army that is immune to courage checks without a corresponding disadvantage.  The Undead suffer a lack of hit points to compennsate but that is not the case here.  Heaping Animators in the rear will create an unbreakable line.  The weakpoint - the Animators - can hide behind the frontline immune to bowfire and any flanking force would doubtless be quickly dealt with unless the Terracotta flank could be broken (which isn't possible).  As it stands it is too powerful.

Finally, not sure a Golem should be toting greater strength than a T-Rex.  Just doesn't really seem right...

[Chad_YMG]

I don't like the 4 skill for a few reasons.

First off, it probably kicks the faction out of any tournament since you just flat-out lose to Ravenwood or High Elves.  Needing 1s to hit is so awful.

Second, I don't want to overdo the "dumb" side of "dumb automatons".  Low defensive skill makes some sense, insofar as they aren't alive and care more about killing you than not being killed, but low offensive skill makes me think of them almost as painted clay zombies.

[Hannibal]

The Miscasts seem wrong to my mind.  The comparisons in other armies are with units that are on Close but are also immune to courage checks.  Given that the Terracotta units are already immune to courage checks it seems to lack flavour or function to me.

I wouldn't do them as always on Close but as harder to control.  Essentially the "guidance systems" are busted.  This probably could be done by making them akin to Lizardmen Trikes:  no SO modifier and no Direct Control.  Or make them Stupid, even when near an Animator.  Then strip away their faction ability.

The net effect of them is that they'd end up being that army's tank.  They're fearless and with a decent toughness but the difficulty in controlling them would lower their cost.

I also query an army that is immune to courage checks without a corresponding disadvantage.  The Undead suffer a lack of hit points to compennsate but that is not the case here.  Heaping Animators in the rear will create an unbreakable line.  The weakpoint - the Animators - can hide behind the frontline immune to bowfire and any flanking force would doubtless be quickly dealt with unless the Terracotta flank could be broken (which isn't possible).  As it stands it is too powerful.

Those weak animators are points you don't have on the line.  That Fearless + Pow 6 makes the Terracotta warriors expensive.  So the result isn't going to be a overpowered army.  It's going to be a very points intensive army with the cheap things like Animators having to go in the back rank, so a small frontage that can be flanked.  I think that'll be the bigger problem.

Finally, not sure a Golem should be toting greater strength than a T-Rex.  Just doesn't really seem right...

Well they probably won't in the end.  We haven't even settled on the Terracotta as the next faction, much less started picking stats for the units.  Take the original post more as brainstorming than the actual stats.

[Chad_YMG]

I want to toss out another possible angle for the Ch'in Warriors.

So far we've been assuming that the terra-cotta soldiers are "dumb" animates, with the drawbacks of low skill and being hard to control and the advantages of being fearless and perhaps extra-powerful.  This leaves us with some awkward design issues:

• Four skill is really awful -- which forces us to build in a fudge like 'detailed control'.
• Having an entire army be stupid is really awkward -- so we have to have a built-in way to negate that disadvantage as well.
• Rout checks are fun.  Some people love the Undead so they can avoid the swinginess, but managing and anticipating rout checks is a big part of the game.

The original terra-cotta soldiers of China were beautifully crafted and detailed and then were painted in vivid colors.  That seems somehow disjointed to me when juxtaposed with 'dumb golem' stats.

What if instead the Terra-Cotta constructs were infused with the spirits of the Ch'in ancestors?  That feels like it would be very flavorful with the Chinese theme and would be consistent with the idea of a relatively small nation that could rule over a large empire because its fighting population draws on its past as well as its present.

This would also allow a completely new result for a failed rout check.  Instead of units having infinite courage they could have a different outcome -- the spirits become disconnected.  The unit would no longer move or attack and its defensive skill would drop to zero.  It can only be re-infused if it is unengaged.

Finally, this approach would allow for some easy design space.  Units where the spirit infusion was flawed could (like the original miscasts) be used as fodder and if all Ch'in people are used for infusion you'd have a natural range of skill.  That would also mean that human units would be naturals for inclusion as well.

I know this goes a long way from the original design idea but I think offers some fertile ground for development.  How does it sound from a flavor perspective?

[Kevin]

Chad, I like the "spirit infusion" thing a lot! 

The only thing that might need to be tweaked is what happens when a unit fails a rout check.  It's sort of weird that an enemy unit would have to stay engaged with a unit that wasn't attacking it.  Maybe others aren't bothered by this.  Or maybe the solution is highly reduced attacks rather than none.

[Hannibal]

I don't know if ancestors is the right fluff, but perhaps some kind of spirit would work well.  What we could do is have them animate them according to the five elements (Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water), which each providing a different bonus.  Maybe that could be their army ability?  Or perhaps their cards?

The other thing I would be to follow a magical feng shui type organization, where to be animated they have to stand in a wonky formation (think akin to a box or a star shape or something) so that the animating chi can flow through them.  As they take casualties, others step forward to help maintain the formation.  Their Courage is more an Intelligence check where they try to stay in formation when they take casualties.  So a failed Courage Check changes their Order to a Hold and gives them a penalty for inadequate Chi moving through them.