The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review

[RushAss]

Yeah, I suppose I could field more archers, but for some reason I always roll like crap.  They end up doing minimal damage, then get steamrolled.  I have to just be diligent in my assignment of spirit guidance.

That's because bowmen suck

He's not the only one with poor archery results.  I have similar issues.  I'll take Ravenwood Archers and get like 5 hits out of them all game long.

Brook and I are also in strong agreement about the Treant.  That thing is just incredible and is usually one of the few units standing at the end of the game.  Unlike Brook, I don't include them in most of my armies and I'll be damned if I can figure out why.

[lazyj]

Bowmasters = death to High Elves. 

Battle Report will soon be posted in the appropriate section. Just remember that "skirmisher" type units go poof against two bowmasters and spirit guidance.

[Quelmotz]

Bowmasters = death to High Elves. 

Battle Report will soon be posted in the appropriate section. Just remember that "skirmisher" type units go poof against two bowmasters and spirit guidance.

Muahahahahahahahahaha *chokes from laughing* 

[RushAss]

You know, I think Bowmasters could also be useful vs Umenzi as long as you're shooting them at anything other than an Elephant.  I need to try that out.

Wait a minute, I'm the only noodlehead in my group that plays Umenzi!  That means I'd have to ask somebody else to try that out against me... 

[lazyj]

Maybe. But the Bowmaster strength is powering through high defensive skill - not something that's usually on the Umenzi line guys. Remember that the regular archers are already skill 6, hitting most of the Umenzi at 3's even at long range! You'll only be adding 3.5" of distance - which is useful, but probably not enough to counter the two extra units the Umenzi would be bringing for the cost of your upgrade. 

[gull2112]

That's something to consider too. Ideally, you want to focus on the vulnerable units first so that when you do close with the heavies you have a better chance to flank them. If you put his heavy into the yellow, but the whole army reaches your lines intact, you've got a problem. You could hope to eliminate the heavies with missiles, but your much more likely to take out the weaker units and be able to pinch the heavies.

I should listen to my own advice, it would probably improve my gameplay immensely. 

[Niko White]

That's something to consider too. Ideally, you want to focus on the vulnerable units first so that when you do close with the heavies you have a better chance to flank them. If you put his heavy into the yellow, but the whole army reaches your lines intact, you've got a problem. You could hope to eliminate the heavies with missiles, but your much more likely to take out the weaker units and be able to pinch the heavies.

I should listen to my own advice, it would probably improve my gameplay immensely. 

This is exactly the right strategy, shoot the weak, in most cases.

The issue with Bowmasters vs. Umenzi isn't so much that the upgrade isn't good (vs 2/1s, +1 to hit is nice) but that your issue is often a lack of dice as much as a lack of quality of dice.  Between Faith Armor and Hex, if you only have one missile unit shooting at an Umenzi unit, you're hard capped at 2 damage.  That's not terrible, but that's a lot of points to spend for it and you're not going to hit the 2 damage all the time anyway.  Generally if you want to shoot Umenzi guys, you're better off with lower-grade missiles because they're relatively easy to hit but can choke your dice.

[Quelmotz]

That's something to consider too. Ideally, you want to focus on the vulnerable units first so that when you do close with the heavies you have a better chance to flank them. If you put his heavy into the yellow, but the whole army reaches your lines intact, you've got a problem. You could hope to eliminate the heavies with missiles, but your much more likely to take out the weaker units and be able to pinch the heavies.

I should listen to my own advice, it would probably improve my gameplay immensely. 

This is exactly the right strategy, shoot the weak, in most cases.

The issue with Bowmasters vs. Umenzi isn't so much that the upgrade isn't good (vs 2/1s, +1 to hit is nice) but that your issue is often a lack of dice as much as a lack of quality of dice.  Between Faith Armor and Hex, if you only have one missile unit shooting at an Umenzi unit, you're hard capped at 2 damage.  That's not terrible, but that's a lot of points to spend for it and you're not going to hit the 2 damage all the time anyway.  Generally if you want to shoot Umenzi guys, you're better off with lower-grade missiles because they're relatively easy to hit but can choke your dice.

True, but think how scary bowmasters are in elven civil wars...

[lazyj]

So, with the advent of Skirmisher types in the Historical Factions, I am ready to say that the much-maligned trifecta of Bowmasters, Wolfkin, and Wolf Pack is now fully justified as a worthwhile part of the army. You have to love the wolf side of things, being able to out-skirmish the skirmishers and still mix it up with the line guys. And you want a solution to Numidians? It's spelled "Wolfpack".

And Bowmasters can plunk any of those guys at will.

You may all admit you were wrong at any time! 

(Yes I am being silly. Only Niko has to admit he's wrong!  )

[RushAss]

And Bowmasters can plunk any of those guys at will.

See my comments on that here: http://yourmovegames.com/forum/index.php/topic,1113.0.html
Even though we beefed up the Bowmasters with that goofy house rule, they are still just wicked against skirmishers.  Of course you must ask yourself if it's worth 4 skirmishers for the points

But yeah, Wolfkin and Wolves suddenly seem really nice if you're facing the current historical armies.

[Quelmotz]

Bowmasters would be great against the Umenzi IMO.

The standard Umenzi line unit is 2/1, which means you'll be hitting at 4, damaging at 4 even at long range. You'll almost definitely be hexed, but I generally don't apply FA on line units unless I really need them to hold out. And even if most of the units have Faith Armor, you can always pick on those without, or just shoot the units after their FA has been used in combat.

After seeing what HE Scorpions can do to the Umenzi when boosted with command cards + precision, I think the Bowmasters would fare even better since the 6 power of the scorpions isn't very useful against the Umenzi. But precision does help a lot. The extra 1 confirmed hit dice negates the effect of hex.

[RushAss]

100% correct there buddy

[Quelmotz]

Anyway, after I bought the Elves of Ravenwood, I suddenly realised what's the issue that makes them a rather sub-par stand-and-shoot army - the lack of cheap and reasonably tough cores. And by cheap I mean lower than 200 points. Although spearmen/swordsmen cost just above 200, their defense is a far cry from the 3/2 of battlesquads/HE infantry or 2/3 of axemen/other dwarven infantry.

Bearkin's 2/2 is poor for a tank, and although bear packs have 5 green health, 14 courage and 1/3 defense, their cost and need for a bearkin pulls them down.

Brownies are great "cannon fodder", their only weakness is that they are non-core. I'd readily take 6 of them if not for the damned core requirements.

Treants are nearly invincible with 5-5-4 health and 14 courage and 1/4 defense, but almost 450 points for a tank is extravagant, especially in stand-and-shoot armies.

Centaurs, stag cavalry, wolfkin and wolf packs are obviously out of the question.

----Not that I want to nitpick, but Ravenwood Archers seem to be kind of overcosted. Firstly, they have poorer courage (12 instead of 13) compared to HE archers, but 1 more yellow health. I assume these two cancel out since they are insignificant for archers usually. And the "forestwalk" ability of Ravenwood shouldn't cost them anything, when they're ARCHERS. Seriously, who would put archers in forests, where they can't shoot anything?

[Niko White]

Anyway, after I bought the Elves of Ravenwood, I suddenly realised what's the issue that makes them a rather sub-par stand-and-shoot army - the lack of cheap and reasonably tough cores. And by cheap I mean lower than 200 points. Although spearmen/swordsmen cost just above 200, their defense is a far cry from the 3/2 of battlesquads/HE infantry or 2/3 of axemen/other dwarven infantry.

Bearkin's 2/2 is poor for a tank, and although bear packs have 5 green health, 14 courage and 1/3 defense, their cost and need for a bearkin pulls them down.

Brownies are great "cannon fodder", their only weakness is that they are non-core. I'd readily take 6 of them if not for the damned core requirements.

Treants are nearly invincible with 5-5-4 health and 14 courage and 1/4 defense, but almost 450 points for a tank is extravagant, especially in stand-and-shoot armies.

Centaurs, stag cavalry, wolfkin and wolf packs are obviously out of the question.

----Not that I want to nitpick, but Ravenwood Archers seem to be kind of overcosted. Firstly, they have poorer courage (12 instead of 13) compared to HE archers, but 1 more yellow health. I assume these two cancel out since they are insignificant for archers usually. And the "forestwalk" ability of Ravenwood shouldn't cost them anything, when they're ARCHERS. Seriously, who would put archers in forests, where they can't shoot anything?

Ravenwood is terrible at stand and shoot, but their archers are some of the finest support archers ever.  I almost always bring 1-2 along unless I'm severely pressed for points.

They're maybe a bit worse than HE archers on paper, but 2/1 defense is better and courage on archers is questionably useful so I think they're basically the same unit for a bit more; they serve a way more important role in the army, though, and as Spirit Guidance platforms they're crazy good.  I love those guys.  Just don't try to stand and shoot with them; they're there to support an aggressive infantry/cavalry strategy.

[ajax98]

... And the "forestwalk" ability of Ravenwood shouldn't cost them anything, when they're ARCHERS. Seriously, who would put archers in forests, where they can't shoot anything?

I put Archers in the Forest all the time due to the slight abnormality of the combat modifier for that terrain.
As long as you have less than 2.5" of Forest in front of your Firing Arc and you have more than half of your unit in the Forest you get the benefit of (0)-1/+0 for the attacking shooter. Any little bit helps.
Nice little hidey-hole.