Dwarves of Runeguard

[Hannibal]

So I'm currently on a "No Bows!" kick, so my armies are definately themed.  Frankly, they'd be more effective with bowmen units, but I can just imagine some angry Dwarf snapping a bow in half and screaming "THIS. IS. RUNE-GUARD!!"

Army 1:  Onager
Crossbowmen x 2
Militia
Axemen
Battleaxemen x 2
Ballista x 2

Can't have archers?  Well then how about crossbows and BIGGER crossbows?  I actually played this one against an undead army a couple of weeks ago and it did fairly well.  It's a bit tricky because Crossbowmen are LOS but can fire into engaged units while Ballista are Indirect Fire but can't fire into engaged units.  A good solid line that softens the enemy up before engaging.


Army 2:  Bastion
Crossbowmen x 2
Axemen x 3
Battleaxemen
Hammermen x 2

The idea is real simple:  line up with as many units on a frontage as possible.   Sure I'm suffering in the missile category, but I have 8 melee units of Dwarves!  Most armies have a weak spot, but the idea here is that every Dwarf in here is a main battle unit, no shortbeards or militia or anything like that.  As an aside, when I conceived of this army, I was intending to be a bit more tricky about it.  Basically, the Crossbowmen would start a little behind the line.  They would Sprint out in early turns to an objective, basically setting up enfilade fire and then flanking the enemy.  I actually think this army might fair poorly because the size of it would encourage people to turtle and then I'd have to slog to them.


Army 3:  Iron Shield
Crossbowmen x 2
Axemen
Battleaxemen
Militia x 2
Longbeards
Ballista

Kind of a 'one of everything' approach with quality levels ranging from Militia to Longbeards.  I imagine this is an entire mountain kingdom of Dwarves marching to war.  With 7 units, I can outnumber most line troops.  The real question is where to put the militia, who are the weak link to the army.  I tend to have them flank the Longbeards in the center because if the Longbeards get into trouble, they'll generally hold on long enough for me to get some help in there.


Army 4:  Vanguard
Crossbowmen x 2
Axemen x 3
Militia
Antonian Horsemen x 2
2 Cards

Seeing a pattern with the crossbowmen?  Without archers it makes them pretty compulsory.  By Dwarven standards, this army is downright sneaky:  the Antonians race down the sides while a 6-unit front advances.  Yeah Antonians are pricey and not all the strong, but they have a Def 4 on the charge at a 7" move.  That's a Def 5 against archers on the way to wherever they're going.  I imagine this army would give someone fits. 

The weakness of this one is that it's weak missile fire and large number of units might convince someone to turtle.  It's not a terrible idea to swap one of the horsemen for ballista, but dang it, I like the idea of the Antonians!

[Niko White]

Just a note, I've found the Antonians to be way better than I ever expected.  They provide a package of things that I find the Dwarves really lack: mobility, power off the charge, and high first defense stat.  Even before the cavalry change most people found them a real pain to shoot down, and they can really do a lot of harassment.  My gut feeling is your Vanguard army doesn't really want the crossbows -- they're a great unit, but I've found them too expensive if you just plan on using them as a line troop, and the fact that they don't get their +1 defense unless engaged is surprisingly irksome against some of the big artillery units.  Militia have real issues in that list too, I suspect -- anyone with archery is going to point to them as the "open up the line" unit of choice, causing them to pretty well disintegrate.  I think you'd be better off switching in some of the doughty dwarf line units, and either use the Horsemen to hold back and hope to punch through on the charge, or rush ahead and start cutting up valuable units and generally being annoying against a stand and shoot army.

[Hannibal]

I've found the Antonians to be way better than I ever expected. 

Yeah the Antonians seem very nice.  At first I was doubtful about their cost, but the speed and High Def is really nice.

My gut feeling is your Vanguard army doesn't really want the crossbows -- they're a great unit, but I've found them too expensive if you just plan on using them as a line troop,

You have to use them as line troops.  They can't fire indirectly.  My experience has been these guys are awesome.  Many people single them out as the 'broken' unit of the army.  I disagree for the reasons you mentioned:  concentrated missile fire can hurt them.  I find them to be very nice line units that can soften the enemy up as they advance.


 

Militia have real issues in that list too, I suspect -- anyone with archery is going to point to them as the "open up the line" unit of choice, causing them to pretty

Have to beg to differ again.  The militia have the same Def and Toughness of Hawkshold swordsmen.  They only appear 'weak' by comparison.  But they are an excellent unit for the price:  a cheap, dependable way to fill your line and you get a Core choice out of it.  Frankly, the Dwarves can fill out the Core choices very cheaply:  2 Militia, 2 Bowmen is 630 pts.  Thats 1370 pts of "fun" stuff you can take.

[Niko White]

My gut feeling is your Vanguard army doesn't really want the crossbows -- they're a great unit, but I've found them too expensive if you just plan on using them as a line troop,

You have to use them as line troops.  They can't fire indirectly.  My experience has been these guys are awesome.  Many people single them out as the 'broken' unit of the army.  I disagree for the reasons you mentioned:  concentrated missile fire can hurt them.  I find them to be very nice line units that can soften the enemy up as they advance.

Sorry, that wasn't the right phrasing.  What I mean is this: if you're advancing your line, I find the extra cost and weakened defense on the crossbows (compared to the Axemen) or the loss of an extra stregth (compared to battleaxemen) by and large has been too important compared to a missile attack at (3) 5/5 (effectively 4/5 since you're moving).  I often like crossbows if they'll be sitting around waiting for the enemy to come to them and contributing to an overall missile-based strategy, but I've found they just don't get enough ranged dice, or enough accuracy, to do anything very meaningful if they're part of a line that plans to advance.  (Consider that even if the opponent has 1 for their first defense number, the crossbows need to close to within 7" -- three turns at dwarf rate unless the opponent is moving towards you -- before they hit on anything better than a 2.  If your opponent's front lines all have 2 on their first defense, which is pretty common, you'll need 1s to actually hit, 2s at 7" or less.  And if they're Elves...forget really ever hitting them.  You're right that they can't shoot over your guys, but remember they can't shoot over the opponent's either, so you're not going to be sniping low-defense archers or artillery pieces.)

I also tend to play against a lot of ranged armies, though, where the lower defense is a big deal, and my opponents tend to prepare for missile attacks by not bringing line units that fold to them.  It could be there's a metagame issue going on here where neither of these are true of the people you play with; if the crossbows don't get shot very often, and if there are tempting targets on the opponent's front ranks, then they are a lot better.

Militia have real issues in that list too, I suspect -- anyone with archery is going to point to them as the "open up the line" unit of choice, causing them to pretty

Have to beg to differ again.  The militia have the same Def and Toughness of Hawkshold swordsmen.  They only appear 'weak' by comparison.  But they are an excellent unit for the price:  a cheap, dependable way to fill your line and you get a Core choice out of it.  Frankly, the Dwarves can fill out the Core choices very cheaply:  2 Militia, 2 Bowmen is 630 pts.  Thats 1370 pts of "fun" stuff you can take.

My bad, I wasn't looking at the cards and confused militia/shortbeards; I was thinking they were 1/2 defenses rather than 2/2.  The 2 on the first defense is a big deal, so they're a fine call, my bad on that one.

[blkdymnd]

Going to try this one tonight and we'll see how it fares...

2 Ballista
3 Crossbowmen
2 Spearmen
1 Shortbeards (because i had the points)

This will be stand and shoot pretty much.  The line will look like this:

Spearmen     Crossbowmen    Crossbowmen    Crossbowmen    Spearmen

                   Ballista             Shortbeards      Ballista


Protect the flanks with the spearmen while crossbow and ballista fire try to whittle down the advancing line.  This will definatley use objective fire whenever possible to take out big threats first.  We'll see how it works.

[Hannibal]

Just to let you know, that your army is illegal.  If it's 2,000 pts, you need 2 more core choices.  If it's less than 2,000 pts, the Ballista take up too many elite choices.

[Hannibal]

I also tend to play against a lot of ranged armies, though, where the lower defense is a big deal, and my opponents tend to prepare for missile attacks by not bringing line units that fold to them.  It could be there's a metagame issue going on here where neither of these are true of the people you play with; if the crossbows don't get shot very often, and if there are tempting targets on the opponent's front ranks, then they are a lot better.

Yeah I think this is a metagame issue.  Around here, you don't see the SAFH armies.  We tend to field combined arms armies with a solid line, some missile troops to back it up, and then a few elites to do their thing (i.e. cavalry, bomb chuckas, super-archers, etc).  We're all old school miniatures gamers, so we've all seen the "archers, longbowmen, and militia" type thing before and have relegated it to the boring bin.

[blkdymnd]

Just to let you know, that your army is illegal.  If it's 2,000 pts, you need 2 more core choices.  If it's less than 2,000 pts, the Ballista take up too many elite choices.

good point... i'll have to hit the drawing board again 

[ZiNOS]

I really like the Antonians, sitting on a flank behind my last unit, order on close and when the front unit final rushes, they move to the left 3,5'' and wait to finalrush the next turn (THIS WORKS WELL IF THE OPPONENT RUSSHES TO YOU).

Here is the list i woould play on the next game, it seems to work against orcs. Just put the longbeard against the Trolls .

BTW it is a rushing army, no holding still for my dwarves (although the ballista helps ).

If i had 2006 points i would take a spearmen unit instead of one battleaxemen just to stop the big 'uns.

If you play against shooty armies, try normal axemen instead of battleaxemen (akthough their 6 damage is really effective).

On with the list.

4x Dwarven Battleaxemen
1x Antonian Horsemen
1x Longbeards
1x Dwarven Ballista.

Keep the morale boosting runes for the Axemen, they are going to need it.....

Also sprint the longbeards maybe once or twice.