Elves of Ravenwood Armies

[blkdymnd]

In the vein of Hannibal's discussion, I'll start adding some Wood Elf discussion and armies I've tried to test so far.  The only one I've played yet would do great with a thicket of woods or two, in the open battle I played against the undead, it won but took some heavier casualties than I wanted it too. 

It's basically themed around a forest spirit army:

1 Treant
3 Brownies
2 Centaurs
2 Bowmen
2 Swordsmen
2 Cards

With the backup unit rule, the Brownies are a great way to lead the elf footsloggers into battle in an open field with the Treant taking up one flank and the Centaurs teaming on the other.  In a terrained battlefield, i think it would be awesome as the Brownies now become harrassing units flitting through the woods and the list has more of a hit and run feel to it.  i really want to test it with the terrain pack and see how it does when I get it.  I'll add more as I test.

[Hannibal]

Aren't you concerned about getting flanked?  I see how the brownies up front could protect you, but I'm thinking the only thing with any staying power is the Treant.  What armies did you face with that list?

[Hannibal]

Okay, so here's my Ravenwood armies.  I must say, I just don't "get" Elves.  They're soooo pricey that I always feel outnumbered or unable to take the neat things I want to take.

Army 1:  Bears!
Archers x 2
Centaurs
Bear Kin x 2
Bear Pack x 2
2 Cards

For some reason, I just love the bears and wanted to take an army of them.  However, I feel that this army is going to get me in trouble:  I have only 4 line units, meaning I have to put the centaurs on the line as well.  I'm toying with the idea of swapping the centaurs for stag cavalry.  That'd allow me to pick up 2 units of brownies (droppign the 2 cards).  With two stacked units of brownies, that'd give me a wider frontage. 


Army 2:  Spear & Shield
Archers x 2
Spearmen
Swordsmen x 2
Wolf Kin
Wolf Pack
Stag Cavalry x 2

The idea here is that the Wolf Pack and Stag Cavalry strike hard on a flank (the spear) while the slower swordsmen, spearmen, and wolf kin (the shield) take the brunt of the actual fighting.  Because, again, there's a problem of enough main battle units, The Stag Cavalry probably have to be on the line, probably the flanks.  This frees up the wolves to either flank the enemy line or go after the enemy's archers behind the line.


Army 3:  Oak & Willow
Archers x 2
Swordsmen x 3
Brownies x 2
Treant
Stag Cavalry

Another variation on trying to bust the enemy line with fast moving stuff, this time I pair the fragile cavalry with the tough-as-nails Treant.  The Brownies exist to give me a wider frontage, with one unit backing up the other.  The idea is that they will die slowly. 

Very unsure of all three of these lists.  The Elves are very, very hard to produce an army that provides enough frontage.  I think more than any other army, they need to fight with terrain on the table.

[blkdymnd]

Aren't you concerned about getting flanked?  I see how the brownies up front could protect you, but I'm thinking the only thing with any staying power is the Treant.  What armies did you face with that list?

The first game was against Andy with Undead, so I didn't have to worry about my flanks as much with the Cav on one side and the Treant on the other.  It was a funny match as Andy stocked up on zombies and 2 or 3 of the small battles ended up with me being unable to wound him, and him unable to hit me 

[blkdymnd]

Ok, so since I am the guy who loves themed armies, my next up is the Yogi army.  I wanted to do something with bears.  This one is freeform, I'm going to find one to adjust to a regular army composition, but here is this one:

1 Brownies
2 Bearkin
2 Bear Packs
2 Centaurs
2 Command Cards

1991 Points

It seems that it will be very hard hitting, not sure about endurance though even though the bears have a great amount of hit points.  I'm going back to the drawing board for a regular comp army with the same sort of theme.

[blkdymnd]

Ok, here is an animal list with enough core to make it comp legal:

2 Brownies
2 Ravenwood Swordsmen
1 Bearkin
2 Bear Packs
1 Wolfkin
2 Wolf Packs
3 Command Cards (without Command Cards it's at 1901, curse that one point!  Or I'd be able to start with 4)

1976 points

[Niko White]

I recently played the Elves in a campaign (no terrain as the terrain pack came out right after we finished) and I found that they're very hard to get a handle on, as people have been saying, but can do great things, as well.

One key thing to remember about the Elves is that you've got a little more offensive punch on your humanoid units than you think; roughly +1 die for each one printed on the card due to nets.  The Stag Cavalry are also quite difficult to shoot down before they get to have an impact on the battle, so you can be much more confident that they'll actually get to charge, even if they need to hold back so as to keep up with a line.  Centaurs are much hardier now with the new missile rules as well, going from 2/2 to 3/2 is a huge difference for them.  Your archers are also very accurate and so operate better at picking off weak units at extreme range than any other army, though they can't punch through hard targets very well.

As noted before, your guys are costly, so they match up quite well one for one against many units, but getting pinched or flanked is a constant concern.  Here's my experience with playing them and preventing it:

1) Have someone who can do tactical strikes.  This means either Stag Cav/Centaurs who can move quickly to cut off and cut down problem units, or archers/bowmasters who can throw arrows where you need.  The Ravenwood cavalry and archers are, in my experience, both best used on the weakest units (defensively) of the opposing army, cutting down anyone who is planning to contribute to a pinch and maybe even opening up pinching opportunities for your own guys.

2) Be sure to maximize your chances for a devastating first strike.  Your units tend to suffer badly if bogged down, even the basic foot, whereas charging is barely an advantage for many units against the Ravenwood forces with their 1 defense.  Meanwhile since most other forces have heavy armor, you'll benefit a lot from the +1 off a charge.  Spirit Guidance can really come in handy here -- if you set it up early, you can use it to tip an enemy unit into morale check territory quickly.

3) Be ready to exploit your mobility.  Your basic foot aren't faster than anyone else's but whatever cavalry-types you have can get up a decent clip, and you have a command card that gives a movement bonus, which no one ever seems to expect.  You're likely to be outnumbered by the enemy line, but if you can cut or bow down some middle-line guys early, you can potentially strand slower units out of the battle long enough for your hard-hitting guys to take out the friends they were planning to pinch with.  Also remember if the opponent brings war machines that your cavalry-types are quite capable of going around certain types of static defenders (particularly zombies and abominations) to cut into the war machines themselves.  You won't always actually get there if the opponent is wary, but against a really static list you can catch them in a real quandary -- either spilt up forces to block the outriders, who are then likely to get picked off on their own, or let the cavalry work their way around and cause some real trouble.

4) Consider deployment carefully.  If you can arrange it, sticking all your guys off to one side against a much longer line can give you the time you need for your damage output to clear out a bunch of guys before the far flank can get into play.  Alternately, if their line is only slightly longer and/or they have some support guys in the back, deploying your cavalry far on the outside and your Elves in the middle can force some very hard choices on your opponent in figuring out how to screen out the cavalry, and can let the cavalry tie up would-be pinchers without even having to fight them.

Here's a very simple Ravenwood list that has served me well.  You can work in more unit diversity as you get comfortable with how it works but this shows off the strengths (and problems) of the basic troops quite well, IMO, and I've used it to good effect against several kinds of armies.

4 Ravenwood Swordsmen
1 Ravenwood Bowmasters
3 Stag Cavalry
1976 points

Or, for those who like to work at closer range with a really devastating charging troublemaker:

4 Ravenwood Swordsmen
1 Ravenwood Archers
2 Stag Cavlary
1 Centaurs
1984 points

[Hannibal]

Some follow up thoughts:

I've really come around on brownies.  Yeah they stink offensively, but their Def is 2 and their Courage is 13.  For 79 points that really good, actually (compare to a Hawkshold Peasant mob that's 70 pts, has Def 1, and Courage 10).  If you're in a situation where you've got 160-170 pts left over (happens more often than I'd like to admit) two of these can do well.  I have one set up on the line and the other backing him up.  No they won't do anything, but the idea is that they die slowly, not actually kill anybody.

Also I think more than any other amry, Elves need terrain.  I think they really really suffer without it.

[Hamanu]

I'm really enamored with the elves and I've been thinking about a "Blitzkrieg" elven army.

4xWolfkin
3xStag Cavalry
1xCentaurs
3xCommand Cards
This would be the deployment option

ScWkWkWkWkSk
          Ct
       Sc

The idea is to move so fast towards the enemy line that he cannot develop his lines quickly enough and to use the Centaur immediately behind the Wolfkin to shoot at targets colliding with the Wolfking, and both the Centaurs and the reserve Stag Cavalry to charge into any opening in the main line. Also, the 3 command cards should hopefully boost the defenses of the Wolfkin.

Do you think this army could work? The wolfkin aren't the best attrition troops, I know, but if they can hold out long enough for the stag cavalry flanking maneuvers and centaur range fire to do their job, they might work. Or perhaps the cetaurs on the flanks with only one stag cavalry in reserve?

Any thoughts?

[killik]

I'm really enamored with the elves and I've been thinking about a "Blitzkrieg" elven army.

4xWolfkin
3xStag Cavalry
1xCentaurs
3xCommand Cards
This would be the deployment option

ScWkWkWkWkSk
          Ct
       Sc

The idea is to move so fast towards the enemy line that he cannot develop his lines quickly enough and to use the Centaur immediately behind the Wolfkin to shoot at targets colliding with the Wolfking, and both the Centaurs and the reserve Stag Cavalry to charge into any opening in the main line. Also, the 3 command cards should hopefully boost the defenses of the Wolfkin.

Do you think this army could work? The wolfkin aren't the best attrition troops, I know, but if they can hold out long enough for the stag cavalry flanking maneuvers and centaur range fire to do their job, they might work. Or perhaps the cetaurs on the flanks with only one stag cavalry in reserve?

Any thoughts?

This army looks way too risky. Your intent to reach the enemy line quickly is hampered by a few things:

First is who starts. If your opponent has a lower point cost in army building, he could choose for you to go first which would mean he gets a free turn to move his units before you charge.

Second is your units movement. The Wolfkin would require 3 full turns to reach the enemy deployment zone along with the centaur and calvary unit behind them or FOUR turns if he has his entire army on hold. Even an army with two average range units can do serious damage to your wolfkin before you even engage. If even one of them routes, this creates a serious gap in your line. Even though the Wolfkin rallies for free at the end of the turn, not only would you have to use a command action to change his order on your turn but the unit would also be one turn behind the others in movement.

Third is your lack of range units. Even a factions average archer units can do significant damage combined with the foot troops. Damaging some of the enemy foot troops before engagements occur can mean the difference between a unit routing or remaining.

[Hamanu]

I tried this army yesterday against an undead player with a giant catapult, 2 skeleton trolls, 2 abominations, 1 skeleton cavalry and 3 archers. His initial setup was a tactical blunder as he grouped his archers and abominations on one flank and his catapult protected by cavalry on the other. I put all three of my stag cavalry on my right flank where his catapult was and managed to rush-smash cavalry-pinch catapult. The Wolfkin didn't do that well, but they held out long enough for the cavalry to charge/pinch the skeleton trolls and wipe them out one by one. I had the centaur behind the wolfkin, shooting at the trolls but too late did I realize that by doing this they were cutting off the wolfkin retreat. However, both of the "blocked" wolfkin passed their rout checks and managed to stay on the line. Also, my opponent targeted 1 wolfkin with his archers that I ended up giving an H to so they drew archer fire for 3 turns and survived (lol).

However, I realize that 4 wolfkin are not good for the line because of their 2 defense so I might replace them with swordsmen or spearmen. With their def 3 they can withstand a lot of fire from archers and the stag cavalry are superb with their high defense and nets