Lizardmen Armies

[Wildman]

Here is one idea for an army:

3 tyrant warriors- 1014pts
1 trog warrior- 218pts
2 raptor packs- 580pts
2 hatchlings- 182pts

total- 1994pts

The main idea is to have a strong center line while hoping that the hatchlings and raptor packs will be able to hold the flanks long enough for the tyrants to punch through the center.

[ZiNOS]

Here is the build that came to me after i read the 3 (!) impact hits of the Triceratops herd.

2 x Triceratops Herd
1 x Ancients
3 x Trog Spearmen
1 x Trog Warriors

Total cost  2000 pts.

The army can be deployed in two ways.

• The Ancients in the center and with a maximum movement of 3,5'' flanked by the herds for a really hard hitting center
• The ancients again in the center, flanked by spearmen but you put both herds on the same flank, next to each other. If you manage to make "two's company" on one enemy unit, that's 6 (six!) imoact hits of strenght 7. Or you pout the second herd behind the first and slightly more outwards so it will flank the enemy flank unit.

This was the "dream build" of my choice, making me daydream of crushing opposing cavalry on the flanks, just by impact hits. My dreams were shattered by High Elven Bowriders, making my herds look like dogs following their master everywhere. 

[Niko White]

Yeah, light cavalry in general can really mess with the dinosaur units for the lizardmen; I've done hilarious things to T-Rexes with Antonian Horsemen.  ("Come over here, good boy.  Go charge those spearmen, and give me just a second while I nip around to your rear...")

Anyway, the triceratops herd is amazingly brutal on the charge, and takes forever to kill after it, letting your guys pinch in, but their lack of modifiable orders is...troubling.  One thing I find you can do with them is herd them around with Raptors or Swarmlings or something else that can move in front of them in an emergency, like if the opponent has them set up to charge into holding spearmen or the like.

Against bowriders, as you've learned, you can't really put them on the flank   But having them right on the outside of the army is dangerous anyway; a lot of units can cause real issues for them by exploiting their stupidity.  The Ancients, on the other hand, make an amazing flank unit; I've taken to using the Triceratopses in the center, and my bowriders hate to see an Ancient facing them down on the flank.  It is nearly impossible to shoot up with them to any meaningful effect, and is a real threat to chase them down and lock them in melee if you aren't super careful.

[ZiNOS]

I have to try the Ancients on the flank option. I use to do this with the trolls but for some reason i never thought of it.

Maybe Ancients on the flank with a Herd next to it. Since the herd will have units on both of it's sides, it will go straight until it crushes onto something. This will be something to look forward to  .

[Niko White]

Yeah exactly, and you have the added bonus that if you need to you can uncap the ancients up to 5" and get them to stand in front of the triceratopses if you need to force them to go around...

[Stormcrow]

Coincidently, my tactic of choice with the lizards is herding the triceratops in the middle and using two's company with two units either to their right or left, forcing the trics to two's company as well.

[andrewgr]

Our local Lizardmen player has had great success with just Trog Spearmen-- he buys like 5 of them every game.  It really discourages the opposing player from buying Large units, which is somewhat of a win in and of itself-- there are many armies that have a hard time bringing a lot of force to bear at one spot without Large units.  (The Dwarves and the Elves and do it, but it's really hard for the Undead, for example).  It's also obviously pretty brutal on cavalry.

He gives Fury to all of his units, and only ever erases it for the extra hit if it's his opponent's turn, so that the can immediately mark it again on his turn.  He wants the +1 Courage!

He's pretty much the Undead players' worst nightmare-- he gets the fragile Undead units into the Yellow so quickly, and then he's got a +3 to his Courage between Fury and Blood Frenzy.  Because he's quite happy to slow-play the battle, he usually has time to go through his deck for his Courage re-roll card (don't remember the name), which combined with his Courage bonuses, means that most games he won't fail a crucial rout check early. 

Tough, tough army.  I can see why everyone gets excited about the T-Rex and the Triceratops Herd and the Ancients, but from what I've seen of his various experiments, I'd put my money on a wall of Spearmen with a few support units tailored to the enemy/scenario/terrain.

[Niko White]

Well the problem with that one, of course, is that it is a big gamble against those forces that can deal -- the Elves and Dwarves.  Trog units are really quite fragile, especially to shooting.  My High Elves, for example, love to see an opposing force made up mostly of trogs, it is an excuse for them to maul several units before they make their way across the table.

The Trikes do have their issues though, no argument.  They have a lot of green health, but unlike other lizard units they don't get any of the courage stuff so they're a big risk for bolting as soon as the opponent manages to get those hits in.  (The T-Rex is a whole different issue and is at the end of the day pretty bad, at least against capable opponents.  It'll eat newbies all day though.)

In any case, one of the great things about this game is that there are generally several fantastic forces you can make with each faction; there are very few units I consider anywhere near "must include."  It's awesome to hear of forces like the 5-trog lizardmen that are radically different from ones I've fielded, but again, which is going to be better in any game depends pretty strongly on what's going on.  Most of my High Elf builds, as well as my Orcs (also fine with no larges) and some of my Hawkshold lists are much happier seeing a wall of 2/2 defense spearmen than having to deal with 5x Giant Monster (Tyrants, Trikes, and/or Ancients being in this category.)

[Forevernyt]

You mean you guys play enough to test out optional builds??

Oh man, I need to get more gaming in.

[Niko White]

Well, I try to play a different army every time, just to mix it up.

And I play a game every week, plus whenever I can bludgeon friends or students into facing me.  And sometimes when I'm bored and without anything else to do I play against myself... 

[Forevernyt]

Well, I guess if I wasn't chained to my computer desk, slaving away at my historical images, I might be able to get more gaming in, woe is me.

 

[Chad_YMG]

Trogs, really?  I was sure that you had written Tyrants because I find it rare that Trogs excite me.  They aren't good enough on offense or defense to be anything more than OK line units, holding on long enough to let your good units get to work.

[Forevernyt]

I think he meant that his units will maul the Trogs until they come across something more formidable.

I could be wrong.

[Niko White]

I find it fascinating how metagames figure in.  I agree with you in general Chad, but I've seen Hawk spearmen and the like mess up enough large/cavalry units to know that guys with that stat line will hurt you if you can't stop it.  I find it very rarely happens with cavalry because you can just avoid charging holding spears with them, but I can see Andrew's point that the Undead have real issues with them because their effective offensive units are predominantly large or cavalry, along with some of their best defenders.  (Troll variants, Abominations, Skeleton Cavalry, Death Knights, GC's, though for that last what they're ever doing charging isn't clear to me and anyone can hit them.)  I find lizard men often have issues with them too, because things like the triceratopses have problems not charging them.

So it fascinates me that Andrew -- clearly an experienced and skilled player -- has so much respect for the Trogs, based on a different kind of metagame.  I've tried the Trog army and my own findings have been more like yours Chad -- I find they don't have a huge punch to make up for the fact that they go down pretty easy to shooting and reasonable melee units.  They'll hold their own if they get in uninjured, but gambling on no shooting to speak of on the part of opponents is becoming more and more of a gamble.

Then again, it could also be that Andrew is less paranoid about charging into "bad" spearman situations than I and my playtest partners are, so that the Trogs catch more large and cavalry units.  I've been semi-reconsidering my hate of it, at least with some cavalry units, so that could be involved as well.  (Large units vs. holding spears is always dire, though, that hurts a ton.)

[andrewgr]

Trogs, really?  I was sure that you had written Tyrants because I find it rare that Trogs excite me.  They aren't good enough on offense or defense to be anything more than OK line units, holding on long enough to let your good units get to work.

In a tournament situation, where you're building one army to take on all opponents on an empty billiard table, I agree with you.

Start throwing in terrain using the optional line-of-sight restriction rules from the Advanced Rules, and let the Lizardmen player know which faction he's going to be playing in a given scenario, so that he knows he's facing the Undead or the Umenzi (for example), and I think you'll find that masses of inexpensive Trog Spearmen can be very sexy.